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Jun 26, 2006 18:39:42 GMT -5
Post by Silver on Jun 26, 2006 18:39:42 GMT -5
According to the information in wikilpedia. Irish Mythology Names Flidais as a member of the race of the Tuatha De'Danann. The epithet she is known by is Foltchain which means "Beautiful Hair" In the Lebor Gabála Érenn (Book of Invasions) she is said to have been the mother of the cultivators Arden, Bé Chuille, Dinand, and Bé Téite.[1] In the Middle Irish glossary Cóir Anmann ("Fitness of Names") she is said to be the wife of the legendary High King Adamair and the mother of Nia Segamain, who by his mother's power was able to milk deer as if they were cows.[2] According to the Metrical Dindshenchas, she was the mother of Fand.[3] She appears in the Ulster Cycle, where she is the lover of Fergus mac Róich and the owner of a magical herd of cattle. The Táin Bó Flidais (Driving of Flidais's Cattle) tells how Fergus carried her and her cattle away from her husband, Ailill Finn.[4] During the Táin Bó Cúailnge (Cattle Raid of Cooley) she slept in the tent of Ailill mac Máta, king of Connacht, and every seven days her herd supplied milk for the entire army. [5] In a later version of Táin Bó Flidais she has one cow which can feed 300 men from one night's milking. [6] Another Ulster Cycle tale says that it took seven women to satisfy Fergus, unless he could have Flidais.[7] Her affair with Fergus is the subject of oral tradition in County Mayo.[8] She is often considered a woodland goddess, and her chariot is reputed to be drawn by deer.[citation needed] She is considered to be the protector of the trees in the forest, the protector of the creatures of the forest, and (in some accounts) the protector of the miscreants of society. Bastard children, slaves, prisoners, and other traditional outcasts of Celtic society have classically fled beneathe her mythological skirts in search of refuge and safety.[citation needed] Other accounts claim Flidais to be the Celtic "Goddess of the Hunt" and she is often toted as the Celtic Artemis. While her temperament could be prone to ferocity, her classic image is one of a benevolent, poised woman, often accompanied by woodland creatures and her bow, as she herself is considered to be a huntress and an accomplished archer.[citation needed On another site, it is suggested that Bricriu the troublemaker from ulster persuades Fergus to woo her from her husband Ailill Fion, whom is said to have battled Fergus and his men but was slain, As one can see , the stories , myths and legends surrounding this woman are many and varied. From RealMagick.com- Obsidian has this description in the occult library. (... deer). Irish. A Celtic Artemis; a huntress figure associated with archery, the sanctity of forests and the wildlife therein, and the chase. Unlike Artemis, however, Her lustiness and sexual appetite is legendary. The question to me now is this, Does the goddess Diana, stem from the legends of Flidais or from her daughter , Dinand or from a little of both Celtic Artemis eh?...Sounds like something RM would like alright, on the other hand it wasn't unlike the Greeks and Romans to attribute Celtic Gods to their own. Though it seems very strange that he would do so on his site when he hates it so much when Christians do the same thing with the unkown god of the Greeks. The main problem *I* have with such comparisons, as Flidais and Artemis is for one the way the two very distinct, and very different cultures viewed their gods and goddesses. When Brenius the leader of the Celtic forces at the time and place for example attacked the temple in Delphi, he was seen to laugh at all the depictions of their gods in statues, and the belief that the gods would inhabbit these man made shrines, and buildings. The Celts believe the gods to exist within another realm of existence which can at times over lap our own, and could pay visits to humans in any form so chosen by the god in question through the art of Feth Fiada or Fith Fath to the Scots. These forms could be as springs, horses, birds, a giant "druid" tree or any other form they chose. Unlike the philosophies like those of the Greek, Roman, and even Christian ideas of all powerful all creating gods and goddesses, the Celts saw them more as their ancestery, the beginnings of bloodlines perhaps. So if one is to truly understand who the gods of the Celts are, they must seperate themselves from the conventional idealisms of what a god or goddess is to them, and instead of seeing these beings as seperate, or above you as an individual, you should strive to see them as simply different, and worship them no more than you would worship your own mother or grandmother, or even a best friend. Did I make this at all understandable? Actually to my suprise I think I do understand, I have always thought that the stories and legends of all of religions gods and goddess stemmed from real people that were just extrordinary, with mental abilities far beyond what is considered the norm for us , which would mean that the goddess Dianna stories would most likely have sprung from Flidais and Dinand stories. If I have missed the point here please let me know and explain using small words lol
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Nov 4, 2006 16:53:23 GMT -5
Post by wren on Nov 4, 2006 16:53:23 GMT -5
Wanna get this going again?
By the way, John, your take on the gods and goddesses is echoed in Frank MacEowen's book 'The Spiral of Memory and Belonging'. I tend to agree with both of you. Okay, now, here's Danu...
Danu - Ireland; Mother of the Gods, she was goddess of rivers and wells, magic, plenty, wisdom. Possible aspect of Anu; ancestress of the Tuatha De Danann. There are twin hills in Ireland called the 'Paps of Danu'. She is also known as Dana.
Most people recognize the name Dana, or Danu as the primal Irish mother goddess, but this mysterious “deity” is much more complex than this. These ideas are not common amongst many Celtic spiritualists. You won’t find this information in too many books.
There are three basic forms in which we can recognize Dana. The first is the most common, as a primal Irish mother goddess. Dana is the womb from which we all have come. This is a pretty simple idea, common across many cultures. Dana is the primal mother of the Land, and of all life on it.
The second function is that of an energy, much like chi or tao of chinese culture. It is the creative energy underlying all existence. It is transcendent and immanent all at once. This means that it is both within us and all creation, as well as outside of us, in the transcendental spiritual realms. It is difficult or even impossible to understand on an intellectual level, for as the Tao Te Ching states, “The Tao that can be talked about, is not the true Tao”. It is beyond this conceptualized understanding that we are so used to in our modern lives. A scientific understanding of this energy might be to reduce all of matter to its most fundamental state, all things then being an energy or vibration of matter. Although this may help people to better understand it, it lacks spiritual depth. However it is easy to see how the idea of this being a mother goddess came about. This energy is what we are made of up of, it is what created us, and so it is very literally our mother. It nurtures and nourishes us, like the Earth, and so in that way too is an encapsulation of mothering powers and energies.
The third way to express this energy is that of “spirit representatives”. These are spiritual beings who embody the Dana energy, acting on behalf of it.
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Nov 18, 2006 10:25:11 GMT -5
Post by wren on Nov 18, 2006 10:25:11 GMT -5
I was looking for a god or goddess associated with woodworking and was sent this information...
"In Ireland that would be Luchta the Wright. Here is an excerpt from 'Ancient Irish Tales' by Cross and Slover: "But it was not so with the Tuatha De Danaan. For though their weapons were broken and blunted to-day, they were renewed on the morrow, because Goibhniu the smith was in the forge making swords and spears and javelins. For he would make those weapons by three turns. Then Luchta the wright would make the spearshafts by three chippings, and the third chipping was a finish and would set them in the ring of the spear. When the spearheads were stuck in the side of the forge he would throw the rings with the shafts, and it was needless to set them again."
Luchta is one of the tri dee dana, the three gods of the TDD, along with Goibhniu the smith, and Credne the brazier. He is thought to be skilled at making both spears and shields. He is the son of Luachaid, and is somtimes known as Luchta mac Luachaid.
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Jan 1, 2007 19:14:30 GMT -5
Post by Lady Anastasia on Jan 1, 2007 19:14:30 GMT -5
There was a triad of Irish craftgods who belonged to the Tuatha De Danann: these were Goibhniu the smith, the most important of the three, Luchta the wright and Creidhne the metalworker. The three gods are called upon to forge weapons for Lugh and the Tuatha in the Second Battle of Magh Tuiredh, fought against the Fomorians. Each god makes a different part of the weapons: Goibhniu the head or blade, Luchta the shaft and Creidhne the rivets. Goibhniu's weapons are guaranteed always to fly true and always to inflict a fatal wound. Goighniu had another role, that of host of the Otherworld Feast: at this meal, the god provides a special ale, and those who drink it become immortal. There is more information at the link www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=2136
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Jan 1, 2007 19:15:32 GMT -5
Post by Lady Anastasia on Jan 1, 2007 19:15:32 GMT -5
And, Just wanted to say... I'd like to see if everyone can come together on working on this stuff again...I just finished reading the thread... I think it's wonderful... lol, love and light to all
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Jan 2, 2007 11:20:32 GMT -5
Post by wren on Jan 2, 2007 11:20:32 GMT -5
Would so love to see that too, lala!
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Jan 14, 2007 0:49:06 GMT -5
Post by wren on Jan 14, 2007 0:49:06 GMT -5
Bumped for niamh!
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Jan 15, 2007 11:20:59 GMT -5
Post by wren on Jan 15, 2007 11:20:59 GMT -5
Manannán mac Lir
In Irish, Scots and Manx mythology, Manannán mac Lir is the god of the sea. He is often seen as a psychopomp, and considered to have strong connections to the Otherworld islands of the dead, the weather, and the mists between the worlds. He is usually counted as one of the Tuatha Dé Danann, although most scholars consider him to be of an older race of deities.
In Mythology and Folklore Manannán features in many Celtic myths, although he only plays a prominent role in some of them.
In the tale "His Three Calls to Cormac"[1] Manannán tempts the Irish King Cormac mac Airt with treasure in exchange for his family. Cormac is led into the otherworld and taught a harsh lesson by Manannán, but in the end his wife and children are restored to him, and Manannán rewards him with a magic cup which breaks if three lies are spoken over it, and is made whole again if three truths are spoken.
The tale "Manannan at Play" features the god as a clown and beggar who turns out to be a harper.[1] Manannán, here in his trickster guise, plays a number of pranks, some resulting in serious trouble, but by the end of the tale he once again sets everything to right.
In the Ulster Cycle tale, Serglige Con Culainn ("The Sick-bed Of Cuchulain") Manannán left his wife, Fand, and she fell in love with Cúchulainn. But when Fand saw that Cúchulainns jealous wife, Emer was worthy of him, she decided to return to Manannán, who then shook his magical cloak of mists between Fand and Cúchulainn, that they may never meet again.[2] [3][4]
Manannán also prophesied to Bran, in the Voyage of Bran, that a great warrior would be descended from him. The 8th century saga Compert Mongáin recounts the deeds of a legendary son, Mongán mac Fiachnai, fathered by Manannán on the wife of Fiachnae mac Báetáin.
Associations Manannán has strong ties to the Isle of Man, where he is referenced in a traditional ballad [5] as having been the nation's first ruler. On Midsummer, the Manx people offer bundles of reeds, meadow grasses and yellow flowers to Manannán in a ritual "paying of the rent", accompanied with prayers for his aid and protection in seafaring and fishing. He is also believed to have been a magician who could make an illusory fleet from sedge or pea shells in order to discourage would-be invaders. [6] [7]
According to the Book of Fermoy, a Manuscript of the 14th to the 15th century, "he was a pagan, a lawgiver among the Tuatha Dé Danann, and a necromancer possessed of power to envelope himself and others in a mist, so that they could not be seen by their enemies."[8] It was by this method that he was said to protect the Isle of Man from discovery.
Manannán was associated with a "cauldron of regeneration". This is seen in the tale of Cormac mac Airt, among other tales. Here, he appeared at Cormac's ramparts in the guise of a warrior who told him he came from a land where old age, sickness, death, decay, and falsehood were unknown (the Otherworld was also known as the "Land of Youth" or the "Land of the Living").
As guardian of the Blessed Isles as well as Mag Mell he also has strong associations with Emhain Abhlach, the Isle of Apple Trees, where the magical silver apple branch is found. To the Celts, the Blessed Isles that lie beyond the sea are the gateways to the Otherworlds, where the soul journeys to after death. Manannán is the guardian of these gateways between the worlds. He is the Ferryman, who comes to transport the souls of the dead through the veils.
Familial relations According to Táin Bó Cúailnge (the Cattle Raid of Cooley), his wife is the beautiful goddess, Fand ("Pearl of Beauty" or "A Tear" - later remembered as a "Fairy Queen", though earlier mentions point to her also being a sea deity). Other sources say his wife was the goddess Áine, though she is at other times said to be his daughter. As the Celtic concept of "marriage" was not necessarily monogamous or permanent, both goddesses could have been his "wives", and he is connected romantically with others as well. Manannán had a daughter, whose name was Niamh of the Golden Hair. It is also probable that another daughter was Cliodna, but sources treat this differently. Either way, she is a young woman from Manannán's lands, whose surname is "of the Fair Hair". Mongan is a late addition to the mac Lir family tree. The historical Mongan was a son of Fiachnae mac Báetáin, born towards the end of the 6th century. According to legend Fiachnae, who was at war in Scotland, came home with a victory because of a bargain made with Manannán (either by him, or by his wife) to let Manannán have a child by his wife. This child, Mongan, was supposedly taken to the Otherworld when he was very young, to be raised there by Manannán. The Compert Mongáin tells the tale.
Despite not being the biological father of many children, Manannán is often seen in the traditional role of foster father, raising a number of foster children including Lugh of the great hand and the children of Deirdre.
Magical Possessions Manannán had many magical items. He gave Cormac mac Airt his magic goblet of truth; he had a ship that did not need sails named "Wave Sweeper"; he owned a cloak of mists that granted him invisibility, a flaming helmet, and a sword named Fragarach ("Answerer" or "Retaliator") that could never miss its target. He also owned a horse called "Enbarr of the Flowing Mane" which could travel over water as easily as land. In some sources he is described as driving his chariot over the sea as if over land, and through fields of purple flowers.
Other names and etymology On the Isle of Man, Manannán mac Lir is known as Mannan-beg-mac-y-Leir (beg=small) The name Manannán derives from an earlier name for the Isle of Man, and his patronymic mac Lir may have been metaphorical and meant "son of the sea (Ler)": Consequently, he is probably unrelated to the character Lir of the well known story of the Children of Lir. His Welsh equivalent is Manawydan ap Llyr. In the Yellow Book of Lecan, there are said to be "four Manannans". The name given for the "first Manannan" is "Manandan mac Alloit, a Druid of the Tuath De Danann, and in the time of the Tuath De Danann was he. Oirbsen, so indeed, was his proper name.... Oirbsen over the land, so that from him (is named) Loch Oirbsen. This was the first Manannan."[2]
English: Manannan mac Lir Manx: Mannan beg mac y lir (“little Manannan son of the sea”) Welsh: Manawydan fab Llyr There are numerous spelling variations including most commonly: Mannanan, Mananan, Lyr, and Llyr
Notes Today there is a museum in the City of Peel on the Isle of Man named the House of Manannan as well as an annual celebration of the arts The Mananan Festival. The traditional of offering bundles of reeds on the Isle of Man is still practiced as an opening ceremony of Tynwald. [9]
References ^ Gregory, Lady Augusta. "Part I Book IV: His Three Calls to Cormac" in Gods and Fighting Men (Colyn Smyth, Buckinghamshire, 1903) online ^ Skene, William F. The Four Ancient Books of Wales "Chapter VI. Manau Gododin and the Picts" online
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Jan 25, 2007 10:38:40 GMT -5
Post by Der Trommler on Jan 25, 2007 10:38:40 GMT -5
Is there a possibility to get pronunciations to go along with these again? It would be cool to get this going again....
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Jan 25, 2007 11:37:52 GMT -5
Post by wren on Jan 25, 2007 11:37:52 GMT -5
Great idea! And, I would love to see this thread come alive again!
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