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Post by Senbecc on May 5, 2006 23:23:41 GMT -5
Fomorii, Fomorian, Fomhoire, Formorian, Fomoraig, Faoi-Mhuir,
The Fomorii are with out a doubt one of the most mysterious races in the Irish texts. It is unknown where these disfigures come from. It is possible that they were pirates. They were never considered to actually be an Irish race. They were big people according to the texts, with dark hair and eyes. This means they may have been African, or maybe even Big Asians or perhaps forebarers of the Picts). The name means beneath the sea, or waves (Faoi-mhuir). The name can also be translated to spirit, or phantom, which is why it is considered that the Fomorii were seen as terrible Gods among the probably Neo-lithic peoples of Eire. They lived on Tory Island, and are said to have been terribly deformed, though it is more likely IMO that the one legged, one armed, one eyed description stems more from the Druidic "Heron pose" (Look for example at Bres the beautiful) which Lugh of the long arm adopted during the battle with the Fomorii. Lugh "Danced a dance of courage" around the Tuatha De at the second battle of Moytura, which we'll get into a little later on in the discussion.
Amergin the Irish poet also mentions a king of Fomorii in the "mystery" when he says "Who is it who calls the cattle from the house of Tethra and upon whom do the cattle of Tethra smile?".
The Fomorii are man's darker instincts, they are his primordial roots. The Formorii are completed by the Tuatha as the dark is completed by the light. There can never be one with out the other. They are a very powerful, very magical race which to me seems to symbolize mans earliest and darkest of earthen forces in which humanity can no longer cope with. Contact with these darker forces of humanity and the earth should always be avoided, you would no more want to deliberately dredge up these beings then you would want to self induce a horrifing nightmare. They are always depicted as oppressors in the texts of Moytura, and according to the Lebor Gabala Eirin were in Ireland when Partholon arrived...Lets just say it wasn't pretty for Partholon. However as I said before the Fomorii shouldn't be considered native to Ireland since the most likely scenario is the Eire was a temporary base for them at the time.
As the discussion continues we'll look at the Fomorri within the texts.
-Senbecc
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Post by Senbecc on May 8, 2006 23:32:21 GMT -5
I think Lugh adopted this pose from the Fomorii, as this is exactly how the texts describe them, the "heron pose" is a magical stance and is used in many settings where strength and courage a needed. So when you read your texts (and I KNOW you will ) remember when they describe the Fomorii this way keep in mind this paragraph.
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Post by ihrian on May 9, 2006 2:21:27 GMT -5
was Balor fomorian? and were there such a thing as the Watchers?? im reading a book about irish history and it mentions them, but as its fiction im not sure, and ive never seen any mention of it anywhere else... sorry if this is a bit of the topic...
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Post by Senbecc on May 9, 2006 4:29:16 GMT -5
was Balor fomorian? and were there such a thing as the Watchers?? im reading a book about irish history and it mentions them, but as its fiction im not sure, and ive never seen any mention of it anywhere else... sorry if this is a bit of the topic... Balor of the one eye, or Balor of the evil eye was one of the Kings of the Fomorii, like the more famous Tethra. Balor is something of an underworld ruler. A god of death, chaos, and destruction. Balor was one of the most powerful of the Fomorii hosts. So awful was his gaze through that one eye that it was said to kill/destroy any who he would look upon!...So big and powerful it was that it took four servents to lever up the eyelid! It was foretold that Balor would die at the hands of one of his grandchildren, so he had his only daughter locked up withing a tower made of crystal on Oileán Thoraí (Tory Island). However by the help of a Ban Drui (Druid woman) Cian was able to reach Balor's daughter Ethlinn and Lugh of the long arm was the result of their union. Much later in the second battle of Moytura Lugh would kill Balor by shooting a rock through his eye and killing him...Just as the prophecy foretold. As for watchers...It's really not ringing any bells...Maybe you can help me out, do they provide a text source?
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Post by ihrian on May 10, 2006 4:48:02 GMT -5
thanks for that, it never really mentioned which race he was king of...
this is why i wasnt sure of the watchers, coz ive only heard of them once..what ive heard is that they were 9 people who balor tricked into becoming his servants, they were enslaved pretty much, but balor promised them eternal life and royalty and stuff..but they were put under some sort of enchantment that forced them to create evil in the world, sort of that they lived on the terror of others. they lived for generations, they could never die, but if they stopped causing trouble then they faded away and their souls were locked into upright stones..so far as ive read this only happened to 7 of them, but im guessing the other two eventually lost it too.. the books im reading are called The Watchers, its a trilogy by Caiseal Mor.
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Post by Senbecc on May 11, 2006 22:30:29 GMT -5
thanks for that, it never really mentioned which race he was king of... this is why i wasnt sure of the watchers, coz ive only heard of them once..what ive heard is that they were 9 people who balor tricked into becoming his servants, they were enslaved pretty much, but balor promised them eternal life and royalty and stuff..but they were put under some sort of enchantment that forced them to create evil in the world, sort of that they lived on the terror of others. they lived for generations, they could never die, but if they stopped causing trouble then they faded away and their souls were locked into upright stones..so far as ive read this only happened to 7 of them, but im guessing the other two eventually lost it too.. the books im reading are called The Watchers, its a trilogy by Caiseal Mor. There were actually several Kings over the Fomorii hosts. Do you know what the names of some of these kings may have been?
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Post by ihrian on May 12, 2006 5:03:26 GMT -5
er, Bres was one wasnt he?? and Morca?? those are all i know
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Post by Senbecc on May 13, 2006 0:34:22 GMT -5
er, Bres was one wasnt he?? and Morca?? those are all i know Morca, son of Dela would certainly be one of these...How about Tethra? Did we mention Elatha? Bres was Fomorii, and he was a King but not to the Fomorii themselves. He married Brigid and by doing so secured himself a seat at the throne of the Tuatha. Promising to only take the milk of hairless cattle, he made it look like he would be a great king, though through trickery he over taxed the Tuatha and passed every cow in Ireland through a fire and singed the hair of them all and took most all there was to take in the way of food. He made slaves of the Dagda, and his brother Ogma...These things didn't last long...But I wonder do you think Bres should be counted as a fomorii king?
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Post by ihrian on May 13, 2006 20:20:54 GMT -5
oh, i didnt know that..sure, hes a fomorii king then, but like u said, not a king over the fomorii..
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Post by Senbecc on May 13, 2006 20:36:38 GMT -5
oh, i didnt know that..sure, hes a fomorii king then, but like u said, not a king over the fomorii.. Well he did bring the Fomorii armies before Lugh after the second battle of Moytura after Lugh killed Balor of the one eye, so I think he may have been acting as a king then.
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Post by wren on Aug 22, 2006 11:29:04 GMT -5
" The next settler was Patholon with his followers, a culture hero who cleared the land and instituted custom and also had a first conflict with the Fomoire, monstrous archenemies each with a single arm and leg who loom large in the sequel..."
"Lug circumambulated the enemy host on one foot and with one eye closed, a magic circuit that mimed the single-leggedness of the foes in general and Balor's 'evil eye' in particular. The latter shared with Cuchulainn and assorted Norse berserks the contortionist trick of sucking in one eye and expanding the other to a monstrous, paralyzing gaze, only in Balor's instance it took four men to lift the heavy lid..." ~ Comparative Mythology by Jaan Puhvel It would seem that Mr. Puhvel agrees with you!
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Post by Senbecc on Aug 23, 2006 1:26:37 GMT -5
Then Lug chanted the spell which follows, going around the men of Ireland on one foot and with one eye closed. The hosts gave a great shout as they went into battle. Then they came together, and each of them began to strike the other. I think Lugh adopted this pose from the Fomorii, as this is exactly how the texts describe them, the "heron pose" is a magical stance and is used in many settings where strength and courage a needed. So when you read your texts (and I KNOW you will ) remember when they describe the Fomorii this way keep in mind this paragraph. " The next settler was Patholon with his followers, a culture hero who cleared the land and instituted custom and also had a first conflict with the Fomoire, monstrous archenemies each with a single arm and leg who loom large in the sequel..."
"Lug circumambulated the enemy host on one foot and with one eye closed, a magic circuit that mimed the single-leggedness of the foes in general and Balor's 'evil eye' in particular. The latter shared with Cuchulainn and assorted Norse berserks the contortionist trick of sucking in one eye and expanding the other to a monstrous, paralyzing gaze, only in Balor's instance it took four men to lift the heavy lid..." ~ Comparative Mythology by Jaan Puhvel It would seem that Mr. Puhvel agrees with you! Glad to hear he agrees...I just don't see the Fomorii as being all that different from the other races of Eriu, perhaps bigger, more vicious at times, and darker...But I see nothing in the texts other than that one passage that makes them seem in human, just more animistic, I suppose.
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Post by wren on Aug 23, 2006 14:08:31 GMT -5
" The next settler was Patholon with his followers, a culture hero who cleared the land and instituted custom and also had a first conflict with the Fomoire, monstrous archenemies each with a single arm and leg who loom large in the sequel..."
"Lug circumambulated the enemy host on one foot and with one eye closed, a magic circuit that mimed the single-leggedness of the foes in general and Balor's 'evil eye' in particular. The latter shared with Cuchulainn and assorted Norse berserks the contortionist trick of sucking in one eye and expanding the other to a monstrous, paralyzing gaze, only in Balor's instance it took four men to lift the heavy lid..." ~ Comparative Mythology by Jaan Puhvel It would seem that Mr. Puhvel agrees with you! Glad to hear he agrees...I just don't see the Fomorii as being all that different from the other races of Eriu, perhaps bigger, more vicious at times, and darker...But I see nothing in the texts other than that one passage that makes them seem in human, just more animistic, I suppose. Or Neanderthal?
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