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Post by wren on Jul 22, 2006 12:25:20 GMT -5
It seems to me, novice that I am, that the texts are deliberate 'onions' of meaning. And, you are always going to bring your own experience to such a reading, as I said in my PM to you.
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Post by Senbecc on Jul 26, 2006 6:48:32 GMT -5
It seems to me, novice that I am, that the texts are deliberate 'onions' of meaning. And, you are always going to bring your own experience to such a reading, as I said in my PM to you. You know...That's not a bad analogy...At all.
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Post by wren on Jul 26, 2006 10:18:11 GMT -5
*Blush*
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Post by Senbecc on Jul 27, 2006 10:48:04 GMT -5
The texts are allot like an onion IMO. Layers, each of which are as important as the last as far as understanding exactly what the ancesters were trying to convey.
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Post by wren on Jul 27, 2006 13:46:34 GMT -5
I love the old Scottish folk tales, especially about Beira and the analogies to winter fighting spring. I see youth fighting age in those, too. And, the Blue Men also being poets. Lots of interesting reading if you read between the lines.
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Post by Der Trommler on Jan 9, 2007 23:06:52 GMT -5
Well, we can see that Ireland still celebrates many Pagan traditions which is obviously a direct result of Christianity's failure in fully negating the Celtic ways. I would be inclined to believe that most writings (especially in Latin, suggesting more Christian influence than Celtic) The other thing is that (I believe) writing by non-clergy was not allowed. If this is true, then this would truly be a Christian fictional story rather than hard cold fact. Most of the clans were not invaded from what I have gathered, rather, the leaders were given a right-hand to God (as it were) & were above the law in terms of ruling. Thus, transcending any violence, Christianity made it's way into Ireland. I haven't been able to read as much on this but it does seem that Ireland has some myths that just simply need busting.....
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Post by wren on Jan 11, 2007 11:57:32 GMT -5
While the myths may have been Christianized, I still believe there is validity in the tales and value in their study. They were not completely eliminated or so completely transformed that we cannot see their roots...imo.
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Post by Marcus on Jan 11, 2007 15:27:45 GMT -5
While the myths may have been Christianized, I still believe there is validity in the tales and value in their study. They were not completely eliminated or so completely transformed that we cannot see their roots...imo. Im not sure if Ard ri posted it here or he told me in a conversation one day but what he said was very interesting. When writing the Irish texts the monks were unable to change anything or christianise anything as they were bound by Brehon Law which prohibited them from doing so.
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Post by wren on Jan 11, 2007 16:33:53 GMT -5
Yes, Marcus, he did discuss that here at one point. I miss his insights!
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Post by Der Trommler on Jan 11, 2007 23:39:27 GMT -5
While the myths may have been Christianized, I still believe there is validity in the tales and value in their study. They were not completely eliminated or so completely transformed that we cannot see their roots...imo. Im not sure if Ard ri posted it here or he told me in a conversation one day but what he said was very interesting. I guess that's part of my confusion....Irish is VERY Christianized (is it not?).....So, to extract what is & what is not supposed to be handed down gets confusing to me. I mean, the Irish still celbrate things like Imbolc, Samhain (I think from what I remember of a DVD on Ancient Ireland....the only thing I didn't like about it was that it barely touched down on anything Celtic or Pagan & pretty much dove right into Christianized Ireland. I was still interested but very dissapointed) When writing the Irish texts the monks were unable to change anything or christianise anything as they were bound by Brehon Law which prohibited them from doing so.
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Post by Marcus on Jan 12, 2007 12:11:11 GMT -5
Im not sure if Ard ri posted it here or he told me in a conversation one day but what he said was very interesting. I guess that's part of my confusion....Irish is VERY Christianized (is it not?).....So, to extract what is & what is not supposed to be handed down gets confusing to me. I mean, the Irish still celbrate things like Imbolc, Samhain (I think from what I remember of a DVD on Ancient Ireland....the only thing I didn't like about it was that it barely touched down on anything Celtic or Pagan & pretty much dove right into Christianized Ireland. I was still interested but very dissapointed) When writing the Irish texts the monks were unable to change anything or christianise anything as they were bound by Brehon Law which prohibited them from doing so. But dont forget that these Irish myths and pagan belief systems are alot older than the christian faoth. Christianity takes its foundations from pagan traditions. For all we know it is the Irish myths and legends are the truth and Christian tales are based upon them.
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Post by Der Trommler on Jan 12, 2007 20:09:30 GMT -5
Christianity did take from many other religions from what I remember. The sacrificial fir tree (Norse, of course) & then Easter & Christmas were 'borrowed'?
Ok...I know not much of the Irish fully. Apparently, my grandmother sort of let that part go. Her mother spoke Gaelic as well as she did (if what my mother said was true). I don't know if she wanted to shed Ireland from her kids or what but I was never handed down anything Irish (so to speak)....On the other hand, my grandfather gave my father a book of Robert Burns works as an heirloom. My father gave it to me before he died. At the time, being young, I didn't understand the relevance of what this meant. Now, Robert Burns, as I came to realize is revered in Scotland. IE: my grandfather was giving a piece of Scotland.... Anyway, that was WAY off the track!!! lol....I really need to read more......lol
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Post by Marcus on Jan 13, 2007 8:28:27 GMT -5
Christianity did take from many other religions from what I remember. The sacrificial fir tree (Norse, of course) & then Easter & Christmas were 'borrowed'? Yes. in order to convert the pagans the christians set their celebrations on pagan festival days and even made their faith almost mirror pagan traditions in order to make conversion to christianity alot easier. So for all we know Christians borrowed from the Gaelic traditions, thus, there seems to be similarities between the Irish and Christian myths. People automatically assume that the Irish myths were christianised. I beleive it was the other way around and that the christian stories were paganised! Paganised!! That is a fun word hehe.
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Post by Der Trommler on Jan 13, 2007 11:33:31 GMT -5
The Catholic church was not nice throughout the ages....Is it true they had Pagan worshipping sights razed & raised churches in those very spots? From what I remember reading, all the workers were Pagans, so they snuck in Pagan symbols & layed them all over ever church they built in western Europe.....I'd like to find out about that...
BTW, I like Paganised....works for former Christians like me. I was Paganised! lol
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Post by wren on Jan 13, 2007 11:46:20 GMT -5
Many times invaders build their sites of worship over the existing sites. That may be not only to 'cover' the old but also because they sensed the power of the place as well.
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