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Post by Der Trommler on Oct 14, 2006 16:21:56 GMT -5
Wren...YOU ROCK!!!!!!
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Post by wren on Oct 16, 2006 11:28:43 GMT -5
Why, thank you very much!!!
I will add more in a few days. Want to get the Scots Gaelic up soon and more Welsh, too!
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Post by Der Trommler on Oct 16, 2006 18:43:18 GMT -5
I know someone who is going to LOVE Welsh! As for the Scots, that's for me too! You are making it easier than the book that I'm reading right now. They skip back & forth on subjects & kind of messes me up (especially since I haven't listened to the tapes fully...lol) Anyway, I am going to read this more (probably read the book still but this is really more in depth on HOW to speak!) So, I must thank you! <looks around for book, realizes it's not in the library, has it in car...blushes> I was going to thank you in Irish but I don't know the words! lol
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Post by Der Trommler on Oct 16, 2006 18:51:11 GMT -5
Hey Wren, I am trying to learn the actually wording in Irish (ie: Dave is ainnm dom- Dave is name to me) A side note: Erin go bragh (is that correct spelling?) What does it mean? I assume Erin is Ireland but bragh is a word I can't find. I was always curious with this as my mother told me it meant 'Top the morning to you.' (it doesn't seem correct)
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Post by wren on Oct 17, 2006 14:26:37 GMT -5
I always thought it meant Ireland forever... though I tend more toward Alba go bragh!
As for the rest, I'll have to check. I'm learning all this too!
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Post by Der Trommler on Oct 23, 2006 18:59:47 GMT -5
I don't know how you manage to get in all this & the other two languages! If you need some help, I'll be taking out a few more books on Irish......Although, I may not be very good at pronunciations (most of the books I've taken out have gotten the first few chapters in & then skip quickly around!)
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Post by wren on Oct 24, 2006 15:01:44 GMT -5
Any and all help is most appreciated! I'll be posting more soon. Been too busy kicking up my heels lately, and getting ready to go camping this weekend for my Grove Samhain ritual...
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Post by Der Trommler on Oct 30, 2006 19:52:09 GMT -5
There are 3 forms of Irish: Munster, Ulster, & Connacht. I've come across the former two. The differences really kill me. lol! Connacht is for a later date, I guess......Oops! I'm running out of time! I will have to come back soon...Sorry!!!
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Post by ihrian on Oct 31, 2006 1:41:57 GMT -5
top the morning to you? lol doesnt really fit does it its Ireland Forever, but sometimes the spelling is different, ive seen eireann go brach and 'bragh' and im sure there are more spellings of brach, lol gosh, i swear i know how to say thankyou...go raibh mile maith agat its terrible learning german at school and gaelic at home, in german the word order's different too...lol but im getting there dunno if ive already said anything here, but i love this topic tis great, i wanna learn welsh too!!!
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Post by ihrian on Oct 31, 2006 1:44:06 GMT -5
oh, and with the pronounciations, ive decided that if one day i can read and translate into gaelic, and be able to read irish texts, then i will be happy, i know that one day when i learn how to say everything it'll be hard to change the way ive been thinking, but it'll make me happy for now
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Post by wren on Oct 31, 2006 1:46:50 GMT -5
I want to study it for the same reason, to read the old texts and translate them for myself. The Scots Gaelic is because that's my ancestors' language and the Welsh because of the lore and my Grove is Welsh-based. All motivation enough to struggle through...
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Post by ihrian on Oct 31, 2006 1:55:07 GMT -5
lol its enough to make me wish i was a native speaker...actually, i really do wish i was, but learning english as a second language would suck, id hate to have to, lol but as hard as it is, it'll be so damn satisfying at the end
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Post by ihrian on Oct 31, 2006 1:57:26 GMT -5
oh i was so mad, we went to visit my grandparents a while back, and i discovered that grandad can speak both irish gaelic and welsh..i was so envious...i would have forced him to teach me something but he's not well, and we werent there long enough anyway....i couldnt believe it tho, after all this time being obsessed about it no one told me
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Post by wren on Nov 4, 2006 10:51:34 GMT -5
PRONUNCIATION You know by now how to pronounce broad "c" and "g". These sounds occur when the nearest vowel in the word is "a", "o", or "u". The sounds in general resemble those in the English words "coal" and "go". In some Irish words, however, a sound resembling the (uh) sound follows the "c" or "g". The groups "cao" and "caoi" cause this sound to be heard.
"Caol", meaning "slender", is an example.
To learn its pronunciation, first say the English "quail".
Notice how your lips close in to form a "w" sound. Next, try it without closing your lips as much, making a short sound closer to (uh) right after the (k) sound.
Now try the Irish word "caol" (kay*l). Extend the lips for the (k) sound, as you did in "quail", but do not close the lips as you go to the (ay*) sound. Practice with: caoin (keen), weep; caoga (kay*guh), fifty; Caoimhín (kee-VEEN), Kevin; caoch (KAY*-uhk*), blind. Notice that "ao" is pronounced (ay*), but "aoi" is pronounced (ee).
For "g," much of the above holds true. The groups "gao", "gaoi", "gae" and "gaoi" all have the slight (uh) sound between "g" and the vowel. To learn this sound, first pronounce English "Guam", and notice again how your lips close in to form the "w" sound. Next, try it without closing the lips as much after the (g).
Then try the Irish word "gaol" (gay*l). Extend the lips as you did in starting to pronounce "Guam", but do not close them as you go to the (ay*) sound. Then try: gaoth (gay*), wind: gaoithe (GEE-huh), of wind: Gael (gay*l), Gael; gaeilge (GAY*-lig-e), Irish language.
GRAMMAR The useful verb "tá" serves to tell where someone is or how he is. Often it answers the question "Cá bhfuil ___ ?" (kaw* vwil), Where? or "Conas tá __ ?" (KUN-uhs taw*), how is?
To tell what kind of object something is, we must employ a different verb: is (is). (Never pronounce this (iz); remember that Irish has no (z) sound.)
Learn these examples of how to say that a person or thing is in a general class:
Is bosca é (is BOHSK-uh ay*), it is a box; that is, it is in the general class of all boxes.
Is cat é (is kaht ay*), It is a cat.
Is Éireannach í (is AY*R-uh-nahk* ee), She is an Irishwoman, Irish citizen.
Usually "is" indicates a permanent state, but you may use it for states that can change slowly, or after a time, or for states that have been attained. For example:
Is cailín í (is kah-LEEN ee), She is a girl.
Is scoláire tú (is skuh-LAW*-re too), you are a student.
Is dochtúir Seán (is dohk*-TOO-ir shaw*n), John is a doctor.
Adjectives can make subclasses, as in these examples:
Is bosca mór é (is BOHSK-uh MOHR ay*), it's a big box.
Is Éireannach óg mé (is AY*R-uh-nahk* OHG may*), I am a young Irishman, Irish citizen.
Is Cailín deas tú (is kah-LEEN DAS too), you are a pretty girl.
Is múinteoir maith Seán (is moo-in-TYOHR MAH shaw*n), John is a good teacher.
One form of question to be answered by "is" in this way is:
Céard é seo? (kay*rd ay* shuh), what is this?
Céard é sin? (kay*rd ay* shin), What is that?
Correct use of "is" (is) ranks in importance with correct use of "tá". English does not have two verbs for "to be", so you will have to do some exercises to familiarize yourself with the Irish verbs.
VOCABULARY Masculine nouns arán, an t-arán (uh-RAW*N, un tuh-RAW*N), bread
caife (KAH-fe), coffee
bainne (BAHN-ye), milk
cupán (ku-PAW*N), cup
pláta (PLAW*-tuh), plate
tar isteach (tahr ish-TYAHK*), come in
cheana (HAN-uh), already
Feminine nouns spunóg (spun-OHG), spoon
scian (SHKEE-uhn), knife
léine (LAY*-ne), shirt
glan (gluhn), clean
salach (suh-LAHK*), dirty
suigh síos (si SHEE-uhs), sit down
téigh amach (tay* uh-MAHK*), go outside
CONVERSATION Máiréad (maw*-RAY*D): An bhfuil aon duine sa bhaile? (un vwil ay*n DIN-e suh VWAHL-e) Is anyone home?
Pól (pohl): Tá mé anseo istigh (taw* may* un-SHUH ish-TEE). Tar isteach (tahr ish-TYAHK*). I'm here inside. Come in.
Máiréad: Ó, tá tú ag foghlaim Gaeilge anois (oh, taw* too uh FOU-lim GAY*-lig-e uh-NISH). Céard é seo? (kay*rd ay* shuh). Oh, you're studying Irish now. What's this.
Pól: Is cupán é. (is ku-PAW*N ay*). It's a cup.
Máiréad: Tá mórán Ghaeilge agat cheana (taw* moh-RAW*N GAY*-lig-e ug-GUHT HAN-uh). You know a lot of Irish already.
Pól: Beagáinín gach lá (be-GAW*-neen gahk* law*). A little bit every day.
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Post by wren on Nov 4, 2006 10:52:10 GMT -5
PRONUNCIATION
The pair of letters "ea" within a word or at a word end often gets an (a) sound like that in the English word "hat". Examples: fear (far), man; bean (ban), woman; leat (lat), with you; is ea (sha), it is; ní hea (nee HA), it is not.
At the beginning of a word, the "ea" often gets the (ah) sound in the English word "psalm". Examples: eagla (AH-gluh), fear; eaglais (AH-glish), church; each (ahk*), horse.
Sometimes "ea" is pronounced (ou), as in English "out", when it is inside a word.
Examples: ceann (kyoun) head; leabhar (LOU-wuhr), book; gleann (gloun), glen; seabhac (shouk), hawk.
If in an unaccented syllable, "ea" is usually pronounced (uh). Examples: seisean (SHESH-uhn), he (emphatic); aingeal (ANG-uhl), angel.
We will continue to give you the pronunciation guide for all new words and most of the exercises, but you will gradually develop ability to pronounce words by drawing on your experience with similarly spelled words, so that after a time you will not depend on the pronunciation guide.
REFLEX EXPRESSIONS
Here are several more expressions that you should learn for quick use in conversation and thought.
B'fhéidir (BAY*-dir), Perhaps.
Gan amhras (guhn OU-ruhs), Without doubt.
Fan go bhfeicfidh mé (fahn goh VEK-hee may*), Wait till I see.
Is maith é sin (is MAH ay* shin), That's good.
Notice that the second "f" in "bhfeicfidh" is pronounced like an "h". This letter "f" indicates the future tense.
GRAMMAR
Last week we learned how to say that a person or thing is in a general class. An example:
Is seomra é (is SHOHM-ruh ay*), It is a room.
Here are the basic forms for this:
Is scoláire mé (is skuh-LAW*-re may*), I am a student.
Is scoláire tú (is skuh-LAW*-re too), You are a student.
Is scoláire é (is skuh-LAW*-re ay*), He is a student.
Is scoláire í (is skuh-LAW*-re ee), She is a student.
Is scoláirí sinn(is skuh-LAW*-ree shin), We are students.
Is scoláirí sibh (is skuh-LAW*-ree shiv), You (plural) are students
Is scoláirí iad (is skuh-LAW*-ree EE-uhd), They are students.
VOCABULARY Masculine nouns
dinnéar (DIN-yay*r), dinner
Im, an t-im (im, un tim), butter, the butter
siúcra (SHOOK-ruh), sugar
fo-chupán (FOH-k*upaw*n), saucer
ith, ag ithe (i, eg I-he), eat, eating
éist, ag éisteacht (ay*sht, eg AY*shtyahk*t), listen, listening
Feminine nouns
scoil, an scoil (skuhl, un skuhl), school, the school
subh, an tsubh (soov, un toov), jam, the jam
cathaoir, an cathaoir (KAH-heer, un K*AH-heer), chair, the chair
ól, ag ól (ohl, eg ohl) drink, drinking
milis (MIL-ish), sweet
dána (DAW*-nuh), bold
DRILL
Go through the basic forms for "is" (is), with:
dochtúir, dochtúirí (dohk*-TOO-ir, dohk*-TOO-IR-ee), doctor, doctors
múinteoir, múinteoirí (moo-in-TYOHR, moo-in-TYOHR-ee), teacher, teachers
péintéir, péintéirí (PAY*N-tay*r, PAY*N-tay*r-ee), painter, painters
CONVERSATION
Máirín (maw*-REEN), Maureen: Tar isteach sa chistin agus suigh síos (tahr is-TYAHK* suh HYISH-tin AH-guhs si SHEE-uhs). Tá do dhinnéar ullamh (taw* duh YIN-yay*r UL-uhv). Come into the kitchen and sit down. Your dinner is ready.
Dónall (DOHN-uhl), Donald: Ach cá bhfuil Pádraigín? (ahk* caw* vwil PAW*-dri-geen) Nach bhfuil sí abhaile ón scoil fós? (nahk* vwil shee uh-VWAHL-e ohn skuhl fohs) But where is Patricia? Isn't she home from school yet?
Máirín: Níl sí (neel shee). Níl a fhios agam cá bhfuil sí (neel is uh GUHM kaw* vwil shee). She's not. I don't know where she is.
Dónall: Tá gach rud ar an mbord, go cinnte, ach tá an fochupán seo salach (taw* gahk* rud er un mohrd, goh KIN-te, ahk* taw* un FOH-k* u-paw*n shuh suh-LAHK*). Everything's on the table, certainly, but this saucer is dirty.
Máirín: Nigh é, mar sin (ni ay*, mahr shin). Tá mé an ghnóthach (taw* may* AHN-gnoh-huhk*). Wash it then. I'm very busy.
Dónall: Ó, tá Pádraigín ag teacht anois (oh, taw* PAW*-dri-geen uh tyahk*t uh-NISH). Tá sí ag siúl trí gach áit fhliuch ar an tsráid. (taw* shee uh shool tree gahk* aw*t lyuk* er un traw*d). Oh, Patricia's coming now. She's walking through every wet place on the street.
Máirín: Agus í gan a buataisí! (AH-guhs ee guhn uh BOO-ti-shee) And she without her boots!
Notes: In Irish, "an-" before an adjective means "very". It usually aspirates the next consonant, as in "an-fhliuch" (AHN-lyuk*), very wet. Accent is usually on the "an-" prefixed to the word.
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