Finn
Philosopher
Posts: 153
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Post by Finn on May 23, 2007 16:42:58 GMT -5
Well in saying that I can say that I can say that both are true. Depends on what you believe. A teacher taught me once that if enough people believe that something exists that never before existed then it would then come into existance. I suppose that this could apply here. Why does anyone have to be wrong. Which world would you like to live in. Choose and then live there. Because there is such a thing as right and wrong. There are strong and there are weak. There is life and there is death. We don't live in Utopia where everyone is happy, healthy, eternally young and beautiful with all needs met. It would be nice if we did, but that isn't in the cards. It isn't the nature of the world. One need only look at Mother Nature's program to understand that every day is a crucible. It is like that for a reason. By your argument, racists who think it is appropriate to bash in the heads of minority babies don't have to be wrong. It is the world they choose to live in. I expect you would take issue with that. Most of us would stand up to it. So like it or not, there is a right and wrong, whether or not it is subjective or not.
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Finn
Philosopher
Posts: 153
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Post by Finn on May 23, 2007 16:50:56 GMT -5
I, myself have not had any faerie dealings. I have not seen or experienced them. Do I discredit those who have, no I do not. Because I simply do not know. I love being open to the possibility of a chance of something truly unique. My only wish is that others would as well. Yes we have to have facts and proof of so much, but can we not as Pagans be supporting of each other? We already stand apart from so many. No. We shouldn't. The enemy of my enemy is NOT my friend. We should not support any other yahoo just because they call themselves a Pagan. We should only support them if their actions are ethical, honorable, and the arguments they make sound. I support all Pagans in their right to believe and say whatever they want. That is NOT the same as endorsing those statements or beliefs. In fact, I think it is more important for Wiccans, Pagans, and/or Heathens to police themselves of the lunatic fringe. We will not be taken seriously until we do. To whit, I support Blackwolf's right to believe and say the things he does. I would protest, go to court, and lay my life on the line in regards to the matter. But that doesn't change the fact that I think he is wrong. And because I am fighting to make sure he is heard, I think it is even more important that I voice that I think he is wrong, and make sure that other people don't think I believe the same things. I don't want to be associated with Blackwolf's theology. Do you see my point?
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Post by Lady Anastasia on May 23, 2007 17:54:58 GMT -5
I would like to point out that being pagans, whatever kind we may be, are all in some sort or another accused of having a mental condition. Reason? Because we are open to a whole other world of thinking. We(most of us) think there is more than one god. We think (gasp) that the goddess exists. Some would say that in believing in these things, that cannot be proven, that we are suffering from some mental disease. Also, some would say that seeing faeries and spirits is not possible. But there are many on this board who have. Many who have discussed their experiences and not been accused of any sort of mental disability. Why I wonder? I myself have dealt with spirits in my own home. I have posted about this on this forum. I share with those who have also have experienced those types of issues. What if I was the only one to have ever came on this board and discussed that, would I then be crazy? Would I be deemed unstable because there are none who have experienced what I have? I really do hope not. I, myself have not had any faerie dealings. I have not seen or experienced them. Do I discredit those who have, no I do not. Because I simply do not know. I love being open to the possibility of a chance of something truly unique. My only wish is that others would as well. Yes we have to have facts and proof of so much, but can we not as Pagans be supporting of each other? We already stand apart from so many. And yes here I am, a Admin straying from the topic at hand. Many apologies... Bad Kitty, Bad for straying off topic... lmao.... Hell, I think it's happened more than once in this thread.... I'll say this though, if we are crazy for believing in multiple gods/ and or goddesses... Then, the Christian Tradition is too... Just saying
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Post by Senbecc on May 23, 2007 18:47:15 GMT -5
I would like to point out that being pagans, whatever kind we may be, are all in some sort or another accused of having a mental condition. Reason? Because we are open to a whole other world of thinking. We(most of us) think there is more than one god. We think (gasp) that the goddess exists. Some would say that in believing in these things, that cannot be proven, that we are suffering from some mental disease. Also, some would say that seeing faeries and spirits is not possible. But there are many on this board who have. Many who have discussed their experiences and not been accused of any sort of mental disability. Why I wonder? I myself have dealt with spirits in my own home. I have posted about this on this forum. I share with those who have also have experienced those types of issues. What if I was the only one to have ever came on this board and discussed that, would I then be crazy? Would I be deemed unstable because there are none who have experienced what I have? I really do hope not. I, myself have not had any faerie dealings. I have not seen or experienced them. Do I discredit those who have, no I do not. Because I simply do not know. I love being open to the possibility of a chance of something truly unique. My only wish is that others would as well. Yes we have to have facts and proof of so much, but can we not as Pagans be supporting of each other? We already stand apart from so many. And yes here I am, a Admin straying from the topic at hand. Many apologies... Bad Kitty, Bad for straying off topic... lmao.... Hell, I think it's happened more than once in this thread.... I'll say this though, if we are crazy for believing in multiple gods/ and or goddesses... Then, the Christian Tradition is too... Just saying I think someone has misread their Bibles too. Not only does it never once say their god is the only god, it even goes on to say "let US create man in OUR image." Hell maybe we're all nuts...Just sayin.
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Post by KittyLane on May 23, 2007 19:12:43 GMT -5
Bad Kitty, Bad for straying off topic... lmao.... Hell, I think it's happened more than once in this thread.... I'll say this though, if we are crazy for believing in multiple gods/ and or goddesses... Then, the Christian Tradition is too... Just saying I think someone has misread their Bibles too. Not only does it never once say their god is the only god, it even goes on to say "let US create man in OUR image." Hell maybe we're all nuts...Just sayin. :Pexcuse me: the bible says... let there be no other gods before me, for I am the one true god or something like that. BTW I am not calling anyone crazy, but there are people who have said these types of things to me. So if that makes me crazy then so be it...
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Post by Senbecc on May 23, 2007 19:21:14 GMT -5
I think someone has misread their Bibles too. Not only does it never once say their god is the only god, it even goes on to say "let US create man in OUR image." Hell maybe we're all nuts...Just sayin. :Pexcuse me: the bible says... let there be no other gods before me, for I am the one true god or something like that. BTW I am not calling anyone crazy, but there are people who have said these types of things to me. So if that makes me crazy then so be it... Aye, but if there are no other gods Kitty who are we to put before him?
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Post by KittyLane on May 23, 2007 19:26:48 GMT -5
:Pexcuse me: the bible says... let there be no other gods before me, for I am the one true god or something like that. BTW I am not calling anyone crazy, but there are people who have said these types of things to me. So if that makes me crazy then so be it... Aye, but if there are no other gods Kitty who are we to put before him? Hey they said it not me. LOL We both know that you are right. So quit poking at me.
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Post by Der Trommler on May 23, 2007 22:39:45 GMT -5
We fear that which we do not understand. I posted this in response to most of the posts here. The trouble we have is that we really don't know the human psyche nor do we know what other worldy things are out there. Consider this: If a man kills someone just to see him die, which gets chosen psycho or evil? Most people will use the psycho trick. Does anyone remember the guy from Cali who killed a person(s) & claimed he ate too many Twinkies? (Yes, in this case, they proved that Twinkies-when eaten too much may cause an acute phychosis) So, then, here's the question: Who's reality are we really speaking about? Who's reality is really correct? Taking that aside, let's look at what we know: A man (using Kai or Chi powers can break a 2x4 piece of wood with a bare flinch. The thermograph indeed shows a small intense heat that starts in the stomach, grows fairly large, shoots up through the man's chest & down the arm where the fist strikes the board). This was an actual test. Then there are those than can float. I've spoken to many people who have seen 'floaters' I have not. So, while I can attest to a few small things, I would have to give the benefit of the doubt to those who transform. Whether I see it not, I would be skeptical but I would not rule it out as delusional. Remember, casting a spell & believing it works was also considered such as well. Even to a small degree, today people are skeptical. It is the nature of humans not to believe in something other than a religious figure we have not seen.....I believe the berserkers truly were beserker but they were revered not black sheep. It is culture that always controls what we believe rather than we finding our own path's to walk & walking together with those who are like minded. I think it will always be that way.....
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Post by Lady Anastasia on May 24, 2007 0:15:43 GMT -5
Rowan....
I want to thank you again for posting this topic here for discussion... We've watched it grow and change directions a few times...
The debate has opened up other areas of thought and continued to push the topic into further discussion...
I think it's a very controversial issue, we can see that from the strong emotional responses that this topic has elicited... I hope to see the discussion continue on, as I don't think we've reached the end, or explored all avenues...
I'm just stopping in to briefly remind all that if this hits an emotional chord, take a step back, breathe deeply, and, then come back to it...
Blessings to all lala
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Post by Der Trommler on May 24, 2007 8:10:42 GMT -5
Rowan....
I want to thank you again for posting this topic here for discussion... We've watched it grow and change directions a few times...
The debate has opened up other areas of thought and continued to push the topic into further discussion...
I think it's a very controversial issue, we can see that from the strong emotional responses that this topic has elicited... I hope to see the discussion continue on, as I don't think we've reached the end, or explored all avenues...
I'm just stopping in to briefly remind all that if this hits an emotional chord, take a step back, breathe deeply, and, then come back to it...
Blessings to alllala I agree....also, what someone is saying here may not always be what they mean either. Words take a funny change when they they are written as opposed to verbally spoken....inflections & emotions get lost in translation....
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Post by rowanashmore on May 24, 2007 9:38:42 GMT -5
I would like to point out that being pagans, whatever kind we may be, are all in some sort or another accused of having a mental condition. Reason? Because we are open to a whole other world of thinking. We(most of us) think there is more than one god. We think (gasp) that the goddess exists. Some would say that in believing in these things, that cannot be proven, that we are suffering from some mental disease. Also, some would say that seeing faeries and spirits is not possible. But there are many on this board who have. Many who have discussed their experiences and not been accused of any sort of mental disability. Why I wonder? I myself have dealt with spirits in my own home. I have posted about this on this forum. I share with those who have also have experienced those types of issues. What if I was the only one to have ever came on this board and discussed that, would I then be crazy? Would I be deemed unstable because there are none who have experienced what I have? I really do hope not. I, myself have not had any faerie dealings. I have not seen or experienced them. Do I discredit those who have, no I do not. Because I simply do not know. I love being open to the possibility of a chance of something truly unique. My only wish is that others would as well. Yes we have to have facts and proof of so much, but can we not as Pagans be supporting of each other? We already stand apart from so many. And yes here I am, a Admin straying from the topic at hand. Many apologies... There is some scientific evidence that say that spirits exist. There is no scientific evidence that says that people can change into animals. The idea of someone saying from a perspective of reality that it would be physically impossible to have a ancestor who is a unicorn/wolf/fairy. These are not capable of living in a human soul. The fact is that we as pagans have a responsibility to make sure that we keep ourself from being caught up in fictional possibilities. We have a obligation as magic casters or as people who believe in the old ways to keep true to form and not let our Eclectic ideas take us into the land of impossible. It is our responsibility to keep in reality and not lose ourself to the Dungeons and Dragons mentality of paganism. It is a religion not a comic/role playing game. I have to say that some of the people in this thread that have said what magic is and is not are wrong as well. The definition of magic in its true from is the bending of energy to fit the will of the caster. That is what magic is, it has nothing to do with creating a fake world with a fake history and trying to pass it off as a reality. It is important that we identify the people of our faiths that have mental disorders because those are the people that we are judged on. Why you may ask? Because they are the ones that speak the loudest. I support any pagan that is actually going to be sane and normal about it. I like to think I am a "executive pagan" I worship the old ways of the world of my ancestors this does not mean that I am respectful of "stardust fairyfucker" with their fairy wings and aviator goggles on dancing around throwing glitter cause that is the kind of pagan they want to be. I find it offensive to the gods I worship and the people I respect that try hard to break down that exact "image that people have of us. Paganism as a whole is not a blanket religion I do not agree with every pagan path. I also have a degree in theology so from that perspective I respect people that have chosen to follow a path based in actuality of history. I do not condone just inventing a faith I do not think Jedi is a real pagan faith. It is based off of a movie. Yoda is a puppet not a god. Somewhere along the way pagans as a whole decided to welcome the crazy people with open arms. This is not a great way to be. This is detremental to us as a whole it hurts our cause and it makes us all look silly.
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Post by KittyLane on May 24, 2007 12:13:25 GMT -5
I would like to point out that being pagans, whatever kind we may be, are all in some sort or another accused of having a mental condition. Reason? Because we are open to a whole other world of thinking. We(most of us) think there is more than one god. We think (gasp) that the goddess exists. Some would say that in believing in these things, that cannot be proven, that we are suffering from some mental disease. Also, some would say that seeing faeries and spirits is not possible. But there are many on this board who have. Many who have discussed their experiences and not been accused of any sort of mental disability. Why I wonder? I myself have dealt with spirits in my own home. I have posted about this on this forum. I share with those who have also have experienced those types of issues. What if I was the only one to have ever came on this board and discussed that, would I then be crazy? Would I be deemed unstable because there are none who have experienced what I have? I really do hope not. I, myself have not had any faerie dealings. I have not seen or experienced them. Do I discredit those who have, no I do not. Because I simply do not know. I love being open to the possibility of a chance of something truly unique. My only wish is that others would as well. Yes we have to have facts and proof of so much, but can we not as Pagans be supporting of each other? We already stand apart from so many. And yes here I am, a Admin straying from the topic at hand. Many apologies... Yes I know of such evidence. I myself find it very credible. There are always going to be sceptics (sp?) who will not take any evidence of another realm. No matter if it is apparent or not. They simply refuse to let their minds go there. This is very true. I agree on all levels. Also I might add we should not live so much in fantasy, but welcome reality and all its flaws and possibilities. I see your point. We are all judged by these people because we share similar(if not the same) beliefs. They represent us, whether they like it or not. Paganism as a whole is not a blanket religion I do not agree with every pagan path. I also have a degree in theology so from that perspective I respect people that have chosen to follow a path based in actuality of history. I do not condone just inventing a faith I do not think Jedi is a real pagan faith. It is based off of a movie. Yoda is a puppet not a god. Agreed on that point. But I think people base the religion off of the "practices" of jedism rather than a worshipping of Yoda. I love Yoda BTW...lol I think every religion has its share of crazies. I myself being one. lol
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Post by KittyLane on May 24, 2007 12:14:15 GMT -5
sorry my quote boxs are messed up. .im holding a wiggly 8 month old.
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