The term 'Druid'

[wren]

Does this term, DRUID, appear in the ancient Celtic lore as it is, before it is translated or is it a term that has been translated from something else? Is it something taken from what the Greeks and Romans called these particular Intelligensia/Priests/Lawkeepers upon encountering them or did the Druids call themselves this before the invasion of those other cultures?

[Marcus]

Go to this link and scroll down till you come to Etymology

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druid

It tells you all the different words used for the Druids and who used them!

[wren]

I know those were the terms used but were they actually used by those in ancient Ireland, Scotland and Britain to refer to the Druids? Did the Druids use those terms to refer to themselves? Do those terms appear in the original, untranslated lore to mean Druids (if so, which texts) or are they merely translated now to mean Druids? I'm not merely picking nits here. I have a reason for wanting to pursue this...

For example, we use the term 'Celt' now, which may have come from Keltoi or may not have. It means a rather homogenized group, as opposed to the actual groups in those areas. So, did 'Druid' come first, as then used by the Greeks and Romans in their references, or did it come from the Greek and Roman references and was then used in the later translation of the lore? Which is the chicken and which the egg?

As for Wiki, there is a great deal in the 'Druid' article that I believe needs work. 'Draiocht' means magic, for example? Even the discussions of how to fix the article are mired in 18th century fantasy and neo-non-reconstructive paths, it seems to me. Someone suggesting that a certain tree was used by the Druids to dye their ceremonial robes black? They quote and rely heavily on the Romans and Greeks as well.

[Senbecc]

wren said:

I know those were the terms used but were they actually used by those in ancient Ireland, Scotland and Britain to refer to the Druids? Did the Druids use those terms to refer to themselves? Do those terms appear in the original, untranslated lore to mean Druids (if so, which texts) or are they merely translated now to mean Druids? I'm not merely picking nits here. I have a reason for wanting to pursue this...

For example, we use the term 'Celt' now, which may have come from Keltoi or may not have. It means a rather homogenized group, as opposed to the actual groups in those areas. So, did 'Druid' come first, as then used by the Greeks and Romans in their references, or did it come from the Greek and Roman references and was then used in the later translation of the lore? Which is the chicken and which the egg?

As for Wiki, there is a great deal in the 'Druid' article that I believe needs work. 'Draiocht' means magic, for example? Even the discussions of how to fix the article are mired in 18th century fantasy and neo-non-reconstructive paths, it seems to me. Someone suggesting that a certain tree was used by the Druids to dye their ceremonial robes black? They quote and rely heavily on the Romans and Greeks as well.

Often in the text the term Druid is found as Druí (i.e. ban druí etc.) as well as a host of other terms which translate to Druid. The line of Druidic practice can easily be traced easily back to Gaul, Spain (of course), as well as a host of other places. By the same token however being Celtic didn't nessisarily mean you had Druids either...For example the Celts of Turkey are believed not to have any ties to Druids...I wonder if this may be somehow significant?

[wren]

Okay, here's why I'm asking.

Dryad - spirits who inhabited oak trees
Druid - seen as holy men who worshipped oak trees

Could there have been a connection by the early writers and observers between the two, the oak being a commonality?

[Senbecc]

wren said:

Okay, here's why I'm asking.

Dryad - spirits who inhabited oak trees
Druid - seen as holy men who worshipped oak trees

Could there have been a connection by the early writers and observers between the two, the oak being a commonality?

I certainly suppose its possible. the oak was certainly held in high reguard by the Celts in Gaul and Britain, and I have no doubt the Druids of the day seemed mystical to the invaders. It could be that the two terms are connected.

[Marcus]

wren said:

Okay, here's why I'm asking.

Dryad - spirits who inhabited oak trees
Druid - seen as holy men who worshipped oak trees

Could there have been a connection by the early writers and observers between the two, the oak being a commonality?

It seems very likey that the two words were connected. But this seems to be mostly with the druids of Gaul. The word Dryad is a modern word that stems from a word called "Deru" that was a word similar to the word "drus" which means oak tree. I think it is obvious from just looking at the links between the words that there are links between Dryads and Druids.

However when you look at the Irish druids things are different. The Modern Irish word for "magic", draíocht, derives from Old Irish druídecht. This shows that the word Druid in Irish had no links with the words for Oak trees therfore the Irish Druids dont seem to have any links with Oak trees. This is something that I find very interesting. It seems to be one of the few differences between the Irish and Gaulish Druids.

[wren]

Wow! This thread languished for months and now look at it!

I appreciated all you've both offered here!

[Senbecc]

wren said:

Wow! This thread languished for months and now look at it!

I appreciated all you've both offered here!

Anytime sis!

[Marcus]

wren said:

Wow! This thread languished for months and now look at it!

I appreciated all you've both offered here!

Its strange because the other day i remember telling you on the chatroom that i hadnt studied anything celtic in ages because of school exams. Later on that night I went on an internet browse on druids and it was the meaning of the word druid that i studied. I come here and all of a sudden a thread about the meaing of druid that has been dead for months is brought to life! lol

Hope the info i gave was of use to you.

What does everyone think on the way the irish word for druid has a completly different origin from the mainland european druids?

[wren]

I think there was a lot more interaction than we've heard about! LOL!