Finn
Philosopher
Posts: 153
|
Post by Finn on May 19, 2007 18:32:11 GMT -5
Anyway, I like what you've written through out the thread. Usually I myself prefer to recommend a more "generic" (for want of a more accurate term) study. For example on Meditation I usually recommend someone look into books that are exclusively on that subject. The religious books like those on Wicca, Witchcraft, Druidry, and other practices tend to be biased to the religion. IMO a new study doesn't really need that. Of course they should look into Druidic or Wiccan (what ever the case may be) information as well. IMO however before any direction is taken to a path the basics should be made an absolute science. Do you agree? If I am understanding your question correctly I agree. The path of my own Order is very regimented, a science of sorts. Our basics include an understanding of the natural world in both theory and application. That is why I directed him toward Botany, Biology, and Zoology. Of course, such learning involves a lot of time in the field as it were. All of us undergo essentially the same training. This is because the education is of value in and of itself, the experience prepares one for the spiritual training, and a true sense of community and belonging requires a shared set of values and beliefs.
|
|
|
Post by Senbecc on May 19, 2007 19:30:08 GMT -5
Anyway, I like what you've written through out the thread. Usually I myself prefer to recommend a more "generic" (for want of a more accurate term) study. For example on Meditation I usually recommend someone look into books that are exclusively on that subject. The religious books like those on Wicca, Witchcraft, Druidry, and other practices tend to be biased to the religion. IMO a new study doesn't really need that. Of course they should look into Druidic or Wiccan (what ever the case may be) information as well. IMO however before any direction is taken to a path the basics should be made an absolute science. Do you agree? If I am understanding your question correctly I agree. The path of my own Order is very regimented, a science of sorts. Our basics include an understanding of the natural world in both theory and application. That is why I directed him toward Botany, Biology, and Zoology. Of course, such learning involves a lot of time in the field as it were. All of us undergo essentially the same training. This is because the education is of value in and of itself, the experience prepares one for the spiritual training, and a true sense of community and belonging requires a shared set of values and beliefs. I agree, I myself have spent a good deal of time in the classroom and studying the basics of animal habits, plant life, as well as all nine aspects of the dúile. Druidism becomes a quest for knowledge of all subjects I suppose when all is said and done. Which I think is one reason I am so put off by insta-Druidry and converted Wiccans who don't even take the time to study history much less the rest of what goes into a serious practice. Heh, I guess my problem is "why did I have to work so hard, when everyone else can just...*Poof* I'm a Druid". I am beginning to see what some mean by these people destroying our culture, and the frustration lies in the fact that there seems to be nothing one can do about it...Its just to damned easy to just say "Yay I'm a Druid" I suppose.
|
|
Finn
Philosopher
Posts: 153
|
Post by Finn on May 19, 2007 20:57:26 GMT -5
I agree, I myself have spent a good deal of time in the classroom and studying the basics of animal habits, plant life, as well as all nine aspects of the dúile. Druidism becomes a quest for knowledge of all subjects. Yep. We all have a destiny and a fate. We fight like hell to achieve the former before the latter catches up with us. We are destined to be jacks-of-all-trades... but fated perhaps to be masters of none. Nonetheless, we try. There are worse fates I expect, than a life spent in learning. That is a fair gripe. The "insta-Druid" thing was brought on by a couple of factors (in my opinion). 1. It wasn't enough to just be a Wiccan or a Witch anymore. Some people wanted to be "special" again, to set themselves apart from their Pagan peers. Of course, this started the stampede. Nevermind the fact that there were already Druids (of several different sorts) who had rules and culture and requirements for the title. 2. The Wiccan/Witch books were played out as far as sales. Let's not kid ourselves. It is less the Pagan Community and more Pagan Commercialism. Basically the Druid books are just the Wiccan books slightly rewritten but selling the same theology. Hence, you could be an instant Wiccan; now you can be an insta-Druid. You are correct. There isn't a lot we can do about it. However, I will not go quietly into that dark night. I intend to rage, rage against the dying of the light. Many Wiccans, Pagans, and Heathens ask me why I'm so determined to call out my peers when they behave even slightly off kilter. I merely say that I believe we should hold ourselves (Wiccans, Pagans, and/or Heathens) to the same, if not higher, standard as we do others. When I see someone making us look idiotic, I feel they should have their assertions challenged. That way when outsiders read our posts, see us on television, and so on it isn't the lunatic fringe ALONE that defines us to the rest of the world. The simple fact is that the insta-Druids, the self-annointed, and hucksters will fade away. They don't have any substance, just mouth. In the end, what you and I get from our studies, experiences, and spirituality will last. We know what we are. We know where we came from. We know where we are going. No matter what else goes on around us, we still profit by our endeavors.
|
|
|
Post by Der Trommler on May 21, 2007 8:31:53 GMT -5
WAIT! You mean there's a shortcut to being a druid?!?!
|
|
|
Post by Senbecc on May 23, 2007 18:43:17 GMT -5
WAIT! You mean there's a shortcut to being a druid?!?! Well some seem to feel there is Trommler, but if there is indeed I for one have never been made aware of it.
|
|
|
Post by Der Trommler on May 25, 2007 21:47:11 GMT -5
Cool!!! I'm a druid!!!
|
|
|
Post by Senbecc on May 25, 2007 23:52:32 GMT -5
Cool!!! I'm a druid!!! *sings* Pllllllaaaannnnntttt a trreeeee, for your tomorrowwww!
|
|
|
Post by tahlia on May 26, 2007 20:35:58 GMT -5
Insta-Druids are so cute sometimes... I'll put this up and let it settle for a bit...THEN I shall rant on it. You are nicer than me. I don't find them cute at all. Of course, I understand the nature of the trend too. A large number of people find their way under the Pagan Umbrella because they want to be "special." They could set themselves apart from their peers by being a Witch! Then of course, when that wasn't cool enough, or trendy enough, they became a High Priest or Priestess. The new annoying fad is Druid and when that isn't good enough there is Arch-Druid (a particular favorite of mine). I can call delcare myself the King of England but I don't forsee them giving me a crown. For that matter, while I can decide tomorrow I'm Catholic, that doesn't mean they have to let me in, nor can I decide I'm a Catholic Priest. Traditional Wiccans are somewhat annoyed by the "Wiccanesque" for this reason. The religion requires you to be initiated by a Wiccan to become a Wiccan. This was kind of inconvenient for all those people didn't want to go through the pain in the ass work Traditional Wiccans require. So "self-initiation" was introduced by the enterprising! I do believe I like you Finn. As for this original post....it was like seeing a good movie at the theater....I laughed, I cried, I walked away feeling rather sick to my stomache. lol
|
|
|
Post by Der Trommler on Jul 1, 2007 12:08:38 GMT -5
At first blush, I thought that I fell under the category of Wiccan but as I read about more (spoke to more people), I realized that I was more of a Green Witch. Later, as I understood that even being a Green Witch is not me. So, I search for something that agrees with my belief. Thus far, I'd say I found Druidism to what agrees with me (many reasons) as John had found when I first joined. Lately, I haven't studied up as much but have been enjoying time outdoors (it is Summer after all!). So, I have never done anything without thinking it would be working for it. Life is full of learning & that is what makes us grow. So, if someone asks me, I tell them I am Pagan. That's it. I would never assume any labeling nor is it wise to do such. Imagine, telling someone you are a Druid yet have nothing to substantiate the claim? (YIKES!) So as always, I learn & live...
|
|
|
Post by Senbecc on Jul 5, 2007 4:17:39 GMT -5
At first blush, I thought that I fell under the category of Wiccan but as I read about more (spoke to more people), I realized that I was more of a Green Witch. Later, as I understood that even being a Green Witch is not me. So, I search for something that agrees with my belief. Thus far, I'd say I found Druidism to what agrees with me (many reasons) as John had found when I first joined. Lately, I haven't studied up as much but have been enjoying time outdoors (it is Summer after all!). So, I have never done anything without thinking it would be working for it. Life is full of learning & that is what makes us grow. So, if someone asks me, I tell them I am Pagan. That's it. I would never assume any labeling nor is it wise to do such. Imagine, telling someone you are a Druid yet have nothing to substantiate the claim? (YIKES!) So as always, I learn & live... Inner truth can be a beautiful thing Trommler, and I can tell you from personal experience that there is as much to be gained from the knowledge of nature as there are the other 4 circles of Fionn's wheel. For me the Druid's path is nourished firstly by knowledge of tradition. Right here on these boards David I have seen you discover the importance of the languages and the truth behind the effort that makes us Druids. The Druid's journey will be a long winding path fed by many tributaries, taking many twists and turns. Take your time, the word Druid isn't going anywhere, take online correspondence courses, take as many as you can. Take up the properties of Bardcraft, learn the importance and power behind simple utterances, learn the histories of the lineage. Dome good schools are Druidschool, Henge of Keltria, NOD, and OBOD...Just remember that a reconstructionst takes no one's word for anything until it has withstood their personal inquiry and scrutiny. I want you to scrutinize me as much as anyone. NEVER just take my word for it, for it will be in the scrutinizing of my and other's words that the most knowledge can be found. There are three forms of Druidic knowledge, these being Fios, Eolas, and Fochmarc. Go n-éirí an bóthar leat!
|
|
Finn
Philosopher
Posts: 153
|
Post by Finn on Jul 5, 2007 9:27:37 GMT -5
At first blush, I thought that I fell under the category of Wiccan but as I read about more (spoke to more people), I realized that I was more of a Green Witch. Later, as I understood that even being a Green Witch is not me. So, I search for something that agrees with my belief. Hrm. Let me make an observation here. It is not a personal attack, but more a discussion of this kind of attitude. I don't think it is healthy, productive, or in keeping with the search for truth. There is a difference between convenience and truth. That in itself isn't always what we want to hear. You appear to be seeking a religion, a brand name as it were, for something that matches what you already believe. This means you aren't seeking truth. You are seeking validation. This is a dangerous course to follow. It means you are no longer learning, truly open to new ideas, and/or a Seeker. The moment we stop learning, we start dying. Many truths are not convenient. We learn, as life goes on, that many things of merit do not conform to what we believe. It is how we adapt to these things that defines us as men and women. Casting aside something merely because it disagrees with our currently held paradigm without regard for looking into the truth of the matter, only does a disservice to self. Or, to put this in a less obscure way: "You should be seeking truth. Agreement with one's self is not a reliable way to discern truth from fiction. In fact, that is the worst possible criteria you can use. Personal bias always makes personal convenience seem like truth. I enjoy the outdoors as well, and take pride in being well-trained in zoology, botony, and the environment in general. These are skills in which most Druids receive training, HOWEVER, one does not need to be a Druid to do them. Enjoyment of them likewise, has no bearing on whether one is a Druid or should be a Druid. I would suggest that the "fun stuff" about seeking to walk this path is not a good one upon which to base the choice. There is a lot of hard, painful work and "less fun" things associated with the hard, disciplined road one seeking to become a Druid must walk. Likewise, we aren't talking about a path that can be semi-secular or done on the weekends. Druidism is a lifestyle in which there is no distinction between the secular and the divine. For that matter, there is no distinction between the natural and the supernatural. Druidism requires decades of work, politics, and pain to achieve. It is quite popular to talk about the naturalism aspects of the Druids but somehow the sacrifices, personal restraint, and severe ethical standards are left out in casual conversation. The rather lax and vague notions Wiccans (and eclectics) apply to behavior do not exist among actual Druids. The standards of behavior are high, lengthy, and as restrictive (if not moreso) than that of Christians. More to the point, forgiveness doesn't come easy (if at all). You should think about approaching Druidry as going to Marine basic training that goes on for years. Even after you get past that point, and are afforded any respect at all, the road is still hard. I agree with this part of you comments. I just don't think it is in line with the start of your post. You cannot grow as long as you are merely looking for things which agree with you or are convenient. We learn lessons the hard way. There never has been, nor will there ever be, an easy way. I'm not trying to discourage from considering or approaching the notions of Celtic Reconstruction (as that is where you will find real Druids), but I want you to know what you are getting into. More to the point, I want you to be aware that anyone telling you otherwise is likely just packaging more eclectic Neo-Paganism and stealing the term Druid.
|
|
|
Post by Der Trommler on Jul 8, 2007 21:06:04 GMT -5
Ok, I understand where Finn may misunderstand my thinking. Humans throughout history have always needed a name or label for something which they do, say, think, feel, etc... Therefore, I (hopefully) being human, still have that need to label that which my faith is. I can't put a word on it yet. Let me expound on this a little bit more...I am Scottish & Irish. Feircely proud of it too. In some of my reading in my early years, I found about the Celts yet I didn't have enough resources to really explore more. My fascination with Greek Mythology lead to more Mythology & I found a little more on the Celts but still not enough. Later, when I was in college studying music, Celts came up in Music History. This is where things were being connected. Now, at this time, I was friends with a ton of Wiccans (I have to be clear on this one). I learned about Pagans but the feeling never connected. Not once through my friendship with any of them did I (still Catholic) feel compelled to say that they weren't a religion nor worthy of anything of such. I found the theology to be indeed easy to understand & they didn't try to convert me. Later, I never felt a need to follow what I was calling my religion. I definitely was not an Atheist. I believe in higher powers. But Jesus was something that was not for me. Throughout my lifetime, I questioned Christianity. So, at that time I stayed as a Catholic. Just recently, my girlfriend to be & I was having a conversation in the beginnings of our relationship). She (Wiccan) & I spoke a great deal about Wiccan etc...When I had these conversations, my mind was telling me this is the way I had been for at least 15 years. I am Pagan by all means. Then, I simply started connecting dots of why I always am proud of my heritage. Who I am, where my forefathers came from. My deep urge to visit Ireland & Scotland. Why I felt the Celts were somehow connected to my lineage. So, while I am not always concise in my wording, my drive is. It's here where, I feel, I am being pulled to go. Short story: My father gave me a book. Turns out to be a short family heirloom. His father gave it to him. At the time, I felt a signifigance about it (not just it was a book handed down to me from my father & his father). My sister, decides to borrow it. She had it for about 15 years. It came back into my posession about 2 years ago. I happened to find out that Robert Burns poetry is the beloved of Scotland. My father & his father was passing down a connection to my heritage. That book is very special to me. Thus, my reading of Irish & Scottish reconstructionalism have been followed by incredible feelings of joy. So, while people will ask that of me, I still believe that I am following the path I was meant to follow. I will read as much as can, when I can.
|
|
Finn
Philosopher
Posts: 153
|
Post by Finn on Jul 9, 2007 8:34:33 GMT -5
Ok, I understand where Finn may misunderstand my thinking. I was misunderstanding your meaning. I appreciate the clarification. I understand much better now. The devil is always in the syntax. This is understandable. At first good scholarly information was hard to get. Now there is an explosion of information, but in a way that too isn't making it any easier. There is so much misinformation in there that research is even more precarious. The myths of the Greeks have always been easy access because most of the Western World likes to imagine itself descended from those societies. Those myths were well-documented and preserved because the Romans admired the Greeks (and pilfered from them), and even when Rome went Christian it continued to preserve those myths and stories. Sure they did. They just didn't try to convert you the way you were accustomed to being pitched. Most Wiccans and Neo-Pagans use the "soft sell." Don't kid yourself though, they are still selling something. Most people prefer the soft sell because it feeds the illusion that we came to it all on our own. The reason we talk to anyone about our beliefs is to convince them, "educate" them, or perhaps to reassure ourselves. I'm glad you are finding your way to something meaningful to you but consider that if you had never met them, talked to them, etc. you might never have even become a Pagan much less be considering Druidry. Your contact with them, even if it caused a delayed reaction, contributed to your defection from Catholicism. This is a key facet of Druidry. Pride in one's ancestors and a sense of community. Moreover, a designation of cultural values and patterns of behavior. Celtic Reconstruction is very much about who we were, who we are, and who we will be. You seek what was lost, identity. It is a good thing to seek for. We all hope to find out who we are before the end, and to be remembered by those that follow. We are both on the same journey, and I wish us both luck and discipline. I'm sure we will need both.
|
|
|
Post by Senbecc on Jul 10, 2007 15:39:41 GMT -5
I would consider the respect for ancestors and community to be a part of Celtic spirituality more than I would Druidism, for me it is a key facet of Irish culture (Me being Irish).
|
|
Finn
Philosopher
Posts: 153
|
Post by Finn on Jul 10, 2007 19:10:26 GMT -5
I would consider the respect for ancestors and community to be a part of Celtic spirituality more than I would Druidism, for me it is a key facet of Irish culture (Me being Irish). This is very true, a Druid being merely one caste of a Celtic society.
|
|