Ogham Lore

[Der Trommler]

I've read this a couple of times....I'm trying to understand it. Sorry for my slowness, I usually catch on a little quicker. Is there a way to break this down into layman's terms so I can understand a little better?

[wren]

Perhaps we should take one section of John's first posts at a time and try to dissect them? What do you think of that idea?

[Der Trommler]

Well, I agree. I should start again from the beginning & in parts. My brain understands that there is a system of marks to represent words but I can't picture it well enough.

[Senbecc]

wrentwo said:

Perhaps we should take one section of John's first posts at a time and try to dissect them? What do you think of that idea?

I would be happy to help with that if it will be of service. I'll start working on that ASAP!

[wren]

How many groups of Ogham? Not hard. Three, viz., eight chieftain trees, eight peasant trees, and eight shrub trees. Eight chieftain trees first: alder, oak, hazel, vine, ivy, sloe, furze, heath. Eight peasant trees, viz: birch, quicken tree, willow, ash, whitethorn, whin, apple tree. As to their letters all other shrubs are peasant trees.

Quot sunt genera [Whence is the origin] of the Ogham? Not hard. I shall speak firstly of the woods of the trees whence names have been put for the Ogham letters. Query, well then, whence are the Ogham vowels and consonants named? Not hard, It is from the school of Fenius Farsaidh, to wit, the school of poetry which Fenius sent throughout the world to learn the languages. There were five and twenty that were noblest of them so that it is their names that were put for the Bethe Luis Nin of the Ogham, both vowels and consonants; and there were four who were the noblest of these again, so that it is their names that were given to the seven principal vowels:

>-|-||-|||-||||-|||||-X-O-

and they added other three to them so that from these are named the other three diphthongs, wherefore
>-6-x-#- are classified apart. Second of all, it is from the trees of the forest that names were given to the Ogham letters metaphorically. Moreover Beithe, b, is from the birch of the forest for the first letter on the path of the Ogham alphabet. Luis, l, that is rowan, or elm in the forests. Fern, f, that is, alder in the forest. Sail, s, of the Ogham, that is, willow, again, in the forest. Nin, n, of the Ogham, to wit, maw of spear, or nettles in the woods. Uath, h, of the Ogham, that is, test-tree or whitethorn, on account of its thorniness. Dur, d, of the Ogham is oak, again, in the forest. Tinne, t, of the Ogham, holly or elderberry in the forest. Coll, c, of the Ogham, hazel in the forest. Quert, q, of the Ogham is holly in the forest, or quicken tree, or aspen. Muin, vine, m, mead [from it]. Gort, cornfield, g, fir. Getal, ng, broom. Straif, str, willowbrake in the forest. Onn, o, furze or ash. Ur, u, thorn. Edad, e, yew. Ida, i, service tree. Ebad, ea, elecampane. Oir, oi, spindle tree. Uilleann, ui, ivy. Pin, io, of the Ogham, pine, again, in the forest. Hence are named caera pinne, gooseberries; ifin, again is the name of that letter. Emancoll, witch hazel, ae, again, c doubled according to fact or according to form, c across c in its form.

So it is first a set of letters, associated with the trees, that make up this particular Ogham alphabet (as opposed to the other types of Ogham). These letters, or fews, can be grouped for form words as any alphabet can or they can be studied individually for their deeper meanings as we are doing here with each individual Ogham thread.

Each one then has an 'elaboration' expounding on its tree association and also references from the lore from Morainn, Chulainn and Aengus. Those additional references, as well as the appearance of the trees in the myths, help us to gain the deeper meanings of each tree few.

[Senbecc]

dmmdrums said:

Well, I agree. I should start again from the beginning & in parts. My brain understands that there is a system of marks to represent words but I can't picture it well enough.

I have made a thread on this board where I hope to discuss one piece at a time the meanings of the Ogham, and how to study them. "Basics of the Ogham" I have started with the rankings, and hope to see the disussion grow into the word oghams and the lore behind them as well.

[aj]

*pulls out hair!*its an alphabet that each letter symbolizes not just the letter but a tree and a meaning as well. and the way you wrote this is more confusing then the bloody bible. on top of that add in the different types of ogham and the seemingly random spots he puts the letters, AND the gaelic words in between and its like trying to read through those super thin sheets in some bibles, but you're trying to read the sheet thats behind the 3 in front of it *rips out more hair*

[aj]

wrentwo said:

How many groups of Ogham? Not hard. Three, viz., eight chieftain trees, eight peasant trees, and eight shrub trees. Eight chieftain trees first: alder, oak, hazel, vine, ivy, sloe, furze, heath. Eight peasant trees, viz: birch, quicken tree, willow, ash, whitethorn, whin, apple tree. As to their letters all other shrubs are peasant trees.

Quot sunt genera [Whence is the origin] of the Ogham? Not hard. I shall speak firstly of the woods of the trees whence names have been put for the Ogham letters. Query, well then, whence are the Ogham vowels and consonants named? Not hard, It is from the school of Fenius Farsaidh, to wit, the school of poetry which Fenius sent throughout the world to learn the languages. There were five and twenty that were noblest of them so that it is their names that were put for the Bethe Luis Nin of the Ogham, both vowels and consonants; and there were four who were the noblest of these again, so that it is their names that were given to the seven principal vowels:

>-|-||-|||-||||-|||||-X-O-

and they added other three to them so that from these are named the other three diphthongs, wherefore
>-6-x-#- are classified apart. Second of all, it is from the trees of the forest that names were given to the Ogham letters metaphorically. Moreover Beithe, b, is from the birch of the forest for the first letter on the path of the Ogham alphabet. Luis, l, that is rowan, or elm in the forests. Fern, f, that is, alder in the forest. Sail, s, of the Ogham, that is, willow, again, in the forest. Nin, n, of the Ogham, to wit, maw of spear, or nettles in the woods. Uath, h, of the Ogham, that is, test-tree or whitethorn, on account of its thorniness. Dur, d, of the Ogham is oak, again, in the forest. Tinne, t, of the Ogham, holly or elderberry in the forest. Coll, c, of the Ogham, hazel in the forest. Quert, q, of the Ogham is holly in the forest, or quicken tree, or aspen. Muin, vine, m, mead [from it]. Gort, cornfield, g, fir. Getal, ng, broom. Straif, str, willowbrake in the forest. Onn, o, furze or ash. Ur, u, thorn. Edad, e, yew. Ida, i, service tree. Ebad, ea, elecampane. Oir, oi, spindle tree. Uilleann, ui, ivy. Pin, io, of the Ogham, pine, again, in the forest. Hence are named caera pinne, gooseberries; ifin, again is the name of that letter. Emancoll, witch hazel, ae, again, c doubled according to fact or according to form, c across c in its form.

So it is first a set of letters, associated with the trees, that make up this particular Ogham alphabet (as opposed to the other types of Ogham). These letters, or fews, can be grouped for form words as any alphabet can or they can be studied individually for their deeper meanings as we are doing here with each individual Ogham thread.

Each one then has an 'elaboration' expounding on its tree association and also references from the lore from Morainn, Chulainn and Aengus. Those additional references, as well as the appearance of the trees in the myths, help us to gain the deeper meanings of each tree few.

makes alot more sense when you say it that way lol

[Senbecc]

intorqueounus said:

*pulls out hair!*its an alphabet that each letter symbolizes not just the letter but a tree and a meaning as well. and the way you wrote this is more confusing then the bloody bible. on top of that add in the different types of ogham and the seemingly random spots he puts the letters, AND the gaelic words in between and its like trying to read through those super thin sheets in some bibles, but you're trying to read the sheet thats behind the 3 in front of it *rips out more hair*

Try to take on individual Oghams first, then look at then step back and look at the picture.