Post by theoccultchrist on May 17, 2006 9:41:18 GMT -5
The subject line wouldn't let me finish he title; its supposed to read Christo-Pagans/Eclectics being persecuted by other Pagans.
I set here and thought for a few seconds if I should attempt to write this or not and if so how I would word it - and I hope it is approprate to be posted in this boared. ( I think it is myself since it is related to Christian Pagans/Eclectics/Wiccans/Witches - whatever you choose to label yourself as)
This is a personal experience I had on the website Myspace lately ( I'm sure at least some of you are familiar?)
Anyway, I USED to partipate on one of the groups on Myspace which was called "Hardcore Christians - Living Hardcore" It was a place for Christians and Non-Christians alike. I enjoyed the banter and the debates and discussions I threw in my 2 cents every now and then and none of the athiest or Christians in the group really seemed to mind much - but I'd always get attacked by these 2 pagans on there and I'd get ganged roasted.
I would get told such things like " I didn't know what I was talking about", " I was a fluffy Bunnie", "I was the reason why Christians see pagans in a negitive light", " I was doing more harm than I was doing good." I tried not to let it bother me much and I kept right on posting out of principle and to show the other people in the group that Paganism is such a broad religious umbrella and very individualized and that not all pagans thought alike.
It all came to a climax though on Monday and then Yesterday.
I forget all the specifics and my replys are no longer featured on the website - but it was a christian who was asking questions to anyone who follows some kind of pagan faith what kind of moral codes to they follow and such basic questions - one was if a deity has ever told them directly that something they were doing was wrong ( kinda like I guess Jesus or the Holy Spirit would do for them)
I responded to the best of my ability to an open question in a public forum - and I was paraphrasing what has been said to be by my circle of pagan friends who are apart of the coven I am a dedicant to. And I said it is possible that; and I've been told it has happened that if you are following a certain deitys path and you step out of line they can manifest themselves to repremend you - was the term I used - sort of like a mother figure does, but they love you. - I didn't say in physical form or otherwise just that it can happen ( Speaking in general terms) To my understanding - walking in the woods and a tree falling on you culd be construed as a deity manifested itself to you.
These two Pagans started to flame me right there.
I responded, they would respond - everyone was making a fool out of themselves.
It finally calmed down enough to where they were asking me some basic questions.
Like How to I see the Divine/ What kind of God/Goddess do I follow - and I tried to explain the best I could.
Then they asked me if my god(s)/Goddess(s) requires me to follow any kind of moral code - I said none that I don't choose to follow on my own anyway - I've made the choice to follow what I feel is right - which happens to be the Wiccan Rede, the Witches Creed, the Witches Rede of Chilvary, 13 goals of a witch, the Law of Power by Scott Cunningham and certain parables and teachings of Yeshua/ Jesus the Christ; such as not judging and loving thy neighbor.
There was another question they asked me that I can't remember.
But the last one was How do I view the afterlife.
I tried to answer as honestly as possible based on my perceptions.
I actually can quote what I said for that question word for word - I said:
"That is a tougher question to answer.
do believe something happens - but as to what specifcally I have no idea about - I'm sort of Agnostic in reference towards the afterlife.
I have a theory.
my theory is I think somehow Heaven/Hell ( judgement) and Reincarnation can exist.
I do not believe heaven and hell to be perminate.
I think if you were a good person in life and strived to attain all you could attain and became as close to perfect as humanly possibly then you would get a choice to stay in a paradise style after life or to be reincarnated as whatever you wanted to be.
If you didn't reach that level you would be re-incarnated until your higher conciousness was able to reach that state of "perfection" and you learned all the life lessons and achieved all the goals you were meant to.
if you were a bad person in life then I think you would go to hell for a finate period of time - kinda like a jail sentence - but then you would be reincarnated and have to start all over again.
as far as who decides whats good and what is bad and what is perfect and what is imperfect - I believe only the divine entity is the only one that can decide that."
Which was honest.
And I immediatly got flamed.
in fact one of them told me this:
"Let me state here and now - that answer is the biggest load of bullsh** I have ever heard. How can heaven/hell and reincarnation coexist? What you write doesn't even make sense.
You know nothing about the religion you profess belief in, you make sh** up as you go along, and then it spews out of your mouth in this flowing river of nonsense.
Your words contradict each other just like the religions that you profess belief in contradict each other. I was hoping that I would convince you to give me something coherent, something that would make me realize that you aren't that different from me; that you have sat and meditated and thought on your religious beliefs, and that this is really what you believe.
I am more than ever convinced that you are a Christian, who for some reason thinks that their sexuality and social standing demands they be Pagan.
You will end up a Christian who preaches against Wicca and Paganism - calling yourself a High Priest of the Alexandrian wicca, or something like that."
Then they turned around making a complete new post about it trying to bait me in but I was being the better person and let them *bump* the thread to try to get me to respond but I just let them steep farther into their ignorance.
A Satanist actually responded sort of defending me saying " I think he's insinuating that Heaven and Hell are purgatory for a new life."
Which was pretty much the nail on the head.
Then Christians got on and hi-jacked the thread and was giving their bible definitions of the after life to a general audiance.
these two pagans got mad and tried to make another new thread about it - and at that point I got fed up - and instead of stooping to their level I did the more noble thing and simply resigned from the group.
Now brings me to the reason for this post - Why do the more "mainstream" Pagans what to flamwe and roast people who incorperate and draw from different spiritualities - esp. those of the Christian-Pagan/Eclectic type spirituality? and When something like this happens to you from another fellow Pagan ( If its ever happened to you) How do you respond to it? and does it get under your skin and frustrate you that there are close-minded people not only in the Christian Community but in the Pagan community as well?
*Sorry for the long post - I hope everything goes through okay - but I just felt the need to give details - and I believe this is a relevent question for this board*
Thank you.
I set here and thought for a few seconds if I should attempt to write this or not and if so how I would word it - and I hope it is approprate to be posted in this boared. ( I think it is myself since it is related to Christian Pagans/Eclectics/Wiccans/Witches - whatever you choose to label yourself as)
This is a personal experience I had on the website Myspace lately ( I'm sure at least some of you are familiar?)
Anyway, I USED to partipate on one of the groups on Myspace which was called "Hardcore Christians - Living Hardcore" It was a place for Christians and Non-Christians alike. I enjoyed the banter and the debates and discussions I threw in my 2 cents every now and then and none of the athiest or Christians in the group really seemed to mind much - but I'd always get attacked by these 2 pagans on there and I'd get ganged roasted.
I would get told such things like " I didn't know what I was talking about", " I was a fluffy Bunnie", "I was the reason why Christians see pagans in a negitive light", " I was doing more harm than I was doing good." I tried not to let it bother me much and I kept right on posting out of principle and to show the other people in the group that Paganism is such a broad religious umbrella and very individualized and that not all pagans thought alike.
It all came to a climax though on Monday and then Yesterday.
I forget all the specifics and my replys are no longer featured on the website - but it was a christian who was asking questions to anyone who follows some kind of pagan faith what kind of moral codes to they follow and such basic questions - one was if a deity has ever told them directly that something they were doing was wrong ( kinda like I guess Jesus or the Holy Spirit would do for them)
I responded to the best of my ability to an open question in a public forum - and I was paraphrasing what has been said to be by my circle of pagan friends who are apart of the coven I am a dedicant to. And I said it is possible that; and I've been told it has happened that if you are following a certain deitys path and you step out of line they can manifest themselves to repremend you - was the term I used - sort of like a mother figure does, but they love you. - I didn't say in physical form or otherwise just that it can happen ( Speaking in general terms) To my understanding - walking in the woods and a tree falling on you culd be construed as a deity manifested itself to you.
These two Pagans started to flame me right there.
I responded, they would respond - everyone was making a fool out of themselves.
It finally calmed down enough to where they were asking me some basic questions.
Like How to I see the Divine/ What kind of God/Goddess do I follow - and I tried to explain the best I could.
Then they asked me if my god(s)/Goddess(s) requires me to follow any kind of moral code - I said none that I don't choose to follow on my own anyway - I've made the choice to follow what I feel is right - which happens to be the Wiccan Rede, the Witches Creed, the Witches Rede of Chilvary, 13 goals of a witch, the Law of Power by Scott Cunningham and certain parables and teachings of Yeshua/ Jesus the Christ; such as not judging and loving thy neighbor.
There was another question they asked me that I can't remember.
But the last one was How do I view the afterlife.
I tried to answer as honestly as possible based on my perceptions.
I actually can quote what I said for that question word for word - I said:
"That is a tougher question to answer.
do believe something happens - but as to what specifcally I have no idea about - I'm sort of Agnostic in reference towards the afterlife.
I have a theory.
my theory is I think somehow Heaven/Hell ( judgement) and Reincarnation can exist.
I do not believe heaven and hell to be perminate.
I think if you were a good person in life and strived to attain all you could attain and became as close to perfect as humanly possibly then you would get a choice to stay in a paradise style after life or to be reincarnated as whatever you wanted to be.
If you didn't reach that level you would be re-incarnated until your higher conciousness was able to reach that state of "perfection" and you learned all the life lessons and achieved all the goals you were meant to.
if you were a bad person in life then I think you would go to hell for a finate period of time - kinda like a jail sentence - but then you would be reincarnated and have to start all over again.
as far as who decides whats good and what is bad and what is perfect and what is imperfect - I believe only the divine entity is the only one that can decide that."
Which was honest.
And I immediatly got flamed.
in fact one of them told me this:
"Let me state here and now - that answer is the biggest load of bullsh** I have ever heard. How can heaven/hell and reincarnation coexist? What you write doesn't even make sense.
You know nothing about the religion you profess belief in, you make sh** up as you go along, and then it spews out of your mouth in this flowing river of nonsense.
Your words contradict each other just like the religions that you profess belief in contradict each other. I was hoping that I would convince you to give me something coherent, something that would make me realize that you aren't that different from me; that you have sat and meditated and thought on your religious beliefs, and that this is really what you believe.
I am more than ever convinced that you are a Christian, who for some reason thinks that their sexuality and social standing demands they be Pagan.
You will end up a Christian who preaches against Wicca and Paganism - calling yourself a High Priest of the Alexandrian wicca, or something like that."
Then they turned around making a complete new post about it trying to bait me in but I was being the better person and let them *bump* the thread to try to get me to respond but I just let them steep farther into their ignorance.
A Satanist actually responded sort of defending me saying " I think he's insinuating that Heaven and Hell are purgatory for a new life."
Which was pretty much the nail on the head.
Then Christians got on and hi-jacked the thread and was giving their bible definitions of the after life to a general audiance.
these two pagans got mad and tried to make another new thread about it - and at that point I got fed up - and instead of stooping to their level I did the more noble thing and simply resigned from the group.
Now brings me to the reason for this post - Why do the more "mainstream" Pagans what to flamwe and roast people who incorperate and draw from different spiritualities - esp. those of the Christian-Pagan/Eclectic type spirituality? and When something like this happens to you from another fellow Pagan ( If its ever happened to you) How do you respond to it? and does it get under your skin and frustrate you that there are close-minded people not only in the Christian Community but in the Pagan community as well?
*Sorry for the long post - I hope everything goes through okay - but I just felt the need to give details - and I believe this is a relevent question for this board*
Thank you.