Finn
Philosopher
Posts: 153
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Post by Finn on Jun 22, 2007 8:43:52 GMT -5
Kitty, I was thinking of my Caftan. It's Rainbow colored, I was leaning towards flip flops since it's summer. I don't think this will be to successful, everyone will expect us to cast spells for them. Finn I have to admit that I've never seen door to door Pagans. They were a brave lot, more so than I.>^..^< I suppose "brave" works, although I think the irresistable urge some people feel to "bear witness" might be better described as some other kind of emotion, but to date I've not been able to nail it down. Out of interest I went to their educational potluck to see what they were going to do. As I expected, not that many people showed up. Those that did were already Wiccan, Pagan, and/or Heathen outside of a few interested teenyboppers who had been given flyers. The Wiccans proceeded to explain their theology, talk about the God and the Goddess, and it was not unlike any other sermon of any other faith. I was a little troubled about the teenagers being there as I found the notion of Wiccans handing out flyers to children and telling them to come on down intrusive. Somehow I doubt they told said teenagers to get their parent's permission. I also noted a much greater emphasis and attention paid said teenagers. They were seeking converts. I've had enough Christians do it to me to know it when I see it.
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Finn
Philosopher
Posts: 153
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Post by Finn on Jun 22, 2007 8:47:05 GMT -5
Personally I would like to get a few bible thumpers posting their views, I was once a member of an open religion forum and there were allot of very interesting very heated debates. It would be entertaining to have that here as well. I agree. So much time is spent talking about Christians that it seems a pity they aren't here to give their own viewpoints.
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Post by KittyLane on Jun 22, 2007 11:37:28 GMT -5
Kitty, I was thinking of my Caftan. It's Rainbow colored, I was leaning towards flip flops since it's summer. I don't think this will be to successful, everyone will expect us to cast spells for them. Finn I have to admit that I've never seen door to door Pagans. They were a brave lot, more so than I.>^..^< I suppose "brave" works, although I think the irresistable urge some people feel to "bear witness" might be better described as some other kind of emotion, but to date I've not been able to nail it down. Out of interest I went to their educational potluck to see what they were going to do. As I expected, not that many people showed up. Those that did were already Wiccan, Pagan, and/or Heathen outside of a few interested teenyboppers who had been given flyers. The Wiccans proceeded to explain their theology, talk about the God and the Goddess, and it was not unlike any other sermon of any other faith. I was a little troubled about the teenagers being there as I found the notion of Wiccans handing out flyers to children and telling them to come on down intrusive. Somehow I doubt they told said teenagers to get their parent's permission. I also noted a much greater emphasis and attention paid said teenagers. They were seeking converts. I've had enough Christians do it to me to know it when I see it. I just have to say wow. I was under the assumption that a main point of being a wiccan was not being a recruiting religion. I mean isn't their thing small numbers? After a coven/group gets to a certain point they usually split....right?
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Finn
Philosopher
Posts: 153
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Post by Finn on Jun 22, 2007 12:15:52 GMT -5
I just have to say wow. I was under the assumption that a main point of being a wiccan was not being a recruiting religion. I mean isn't their thing small numbers? After a coven/group gets to a certain point they usually split....right? Heh. Which Wiccans do you mean? Traditional Wiccans don't recruit at least not by normal methods. They consider themselves a "mystery religion" and don't advertise. They are a closed circle so to speak and on rare occassion invite others (or are sought out) and people ask to be trained and initiated. They might be accepted and might not. It is hard to get in. But for the endless hordes of people CALLING themselves Wiccans today there are no rules, guidelines, standards, and so on. So, asking about their "thing" is anyone's guess. The term Wicca has been rendered more or less meaningless, in the same way Pagan has. But I assure you, I've met many Wiccans who recruit, who think recruitment is a good idea, and who go on the attack against other faiths (Christian and otherwise) with a great deal of enthusiasm.
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Post by Senbecc on Jun 23, 2007 1:38:13 GMT -5
I just have to say wow. I was under the assumption that a main point of being a wiccan was not being a recruiting religion. I mean isn't their thing small numbers? After a coven/group gets to a certain point they usually split....right? Heh. Which Wiccans do you mean? Traditional Wiccans don't recruit at least not by normal methods. They consider themselves a "mystery religion" and don't advertise. They are a closed circle so to speak and on rare occassion invite others (or are sought out) and people ask to be trained and initiated. They might be accepted and might not. It is hard to get in. But for the endless hordes of people CALLING themselves Wiccans today there are no rules, guidelines, standards, and so on. So, asking about their "thing" is anyone's guess. The term Wicca has been rendered more or less meaningless, in the same way Pagan has. But I assure you, I've met many Wiccans who recruit, who think recruitment is a good idea, and who go on the attack against other faiths (Christian and otherwise) with a great deal of enthusiasm. Traditional Wiccans don't advertise? Seriously? How many books, sites, and resources are out there on traditional Wicca? OTOH which branch of traditional Wicca are we discussing? Gardner's, Buckland's, Valentine's, the Farrer's etc.
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Finn
Philosopher
Posts: 153
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Post by Finn on Jun 23, 2007 10:10:46 GMT -5
Traditional Wiccans don't advertise? Seriously? How many books, sites, and resources are out there on traditional Wicca? OTOH which branch of traditional Wicca are we discussing? Gardner's, Buckland's, Valentine's, the Farrer's etc. No. They don't. For that matter, I don't consider Buckland, Valentine, or Farrer, and so on to be Traditional Wiccans. They utterly rewrote all the rules, cast aside most of the laws, and in effect made up new religions. They just kept the name. I'm not saying their paths are any less valid, I'm just saying they aren't Traditional Wiccans.
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Post by Senbecc on Jun 24, 2007 3:22:12 GMT -5
Traditional Wiccans don't advertise? Seriously? How many books, sites, and resources are out there on traditional Wicca? OTOH which branch of traditional Wicca are we discussing? Gardner's, Buckland's, Valentine's, the Farrer's etc. No. They don't. For that matter, I don't consider Buckland, Valentine, or Farrer, and so on to be Traditional Wiccans. They utterly rewrote all the rules, cast aside most of the laws, and in effect made up new religions. They just kept the name. I'm not saying their paths are any less valid, I'm just saying they aren't Traditional Wiccans. Gardner himself advertised Wicca through several books. Also how do you not consider these people to be Wicca when they are lineage? Aside from all that how do you practice BTW in the USA without rewriting it? British traditional Wicca has to be practiced in Britain due to it's ties to the land, the seasons, and other basic internal inner court reasons. Once it is moved it is no longer British traditional Wicca. On a further note, it was Buckland who brought Wicca to the USA, not the Gards, so Americanized Wicca is pretty much the bastard child of Buckland, Valentine, and the Farrers, those American practitioners of BTW to my mind aren't much different at all from a group of Brits worshiping Native American gods.
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Finn
Philosopher
Posts: 153
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Post by Finn on Jun 24, 2007 10:39:37 GMT -5
Gardner himself advertised Wicca through several books. Also how do you not consider these people to be Wicca when they are lineage? Aside from all that how do you practice BTW in the USA without rewriting it? British traditional Wicca has to be practiced in Britain due to it's ties to the land, the seasons, and other basic internal inner court reasons. Once it is moved it is no longer British traditional Wicca. Gardner, himself, can do that. He made it all up to start with. It didn't exist before him, so he can play with the rules all he wants. But the key thing to remember is that Garder never told anyone that the rules he set down (or said had been passed down) had changed. Buckland brought Bucklandism to the United States, and just kept the name Wicca. It sounds better than "Bucklandism." They are fairly different in both context and application. The theological viewpoints of Traditional Wiccans (what few are left) is distinct. Part of that mindset is based on being a small, selective group. Part of their spirituality is tied into the "mystery religion" aspect, like a Men's Lodge in the 50s. The Grand PooBah only has signifigance if access to the lodge is limited.
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Post by KittyLane on Jun 25, 2007 10:33:55 GMT -5
I just have to say wow. I was under the assumption that a main point of being a wiccan was not being a recruiting religion. I mean isn't their thing small numbers? After a coven/group gets to a certain point they usually split....right? Heh. Which Wiccans do you mean? Traditional Wiccans don't recruit at least not by normal methods. They consider themselves a "mystery religion" and don't advertise. They are a closed circle so to speak and on rare occassion invite others (or are sought out) and people ask to be trained and initiated. They might be accepted and might not. It is hard to get in. Those are the ones I was referring to. The "original" Traditional Wiccans. WOW what a mouth full.
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Finn
Philosopher
Posts: 153
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Post by Finn on Jun 25, 2007 10:53:31 GMT -5
Those are the ones I was referring to. The "original" Traditional Wiccans. WOW what a mouth full. You are correct then. They don't officially recruit. You are also correct that they will "bud" another Coven at a key point. However, if they didn't recruit at all, they would already be extinct. Their numbers do grow, and beyond birth rates within bloodlines. Sometimes others go through the extensive effort to seek them out and petition to be allowed in. Sometimes they observe others and offer an invitation. The rules for this are not hard and fast. It suffices to say that their growth is extremely selective and slow, which is why they have been largely pushed aside by the population explosion of the self-initiated, and those groups who pretty much take anyone who shows up.
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Post by KittyLane on Jun 25, 2007 11:05:01 GMT -5
Those are the ones I was referring to. The "original" Traditional Wiccans. WOW what a mouth full. You are correct then. They don't officially recruit. You are also correct that they will "bud" another Coven at a key point. However, if they didn't recruit at all, they would already be extinct. Their numbers do grow, and beyond birth rates within bloodlines. Sometimes others go through the extensive effort to seek them out and petition to be allowed in. Sometimes they observe others and offer an invitation. The rules for this are not hard and fast. It suffices to say that their growth is extremely selective and slow, which is why they have been largely pushed aside by the population explosion of the self-initiated, and those groups who pretty much take anyone who shows up. Well a group that I take most of my knowledge from is Traditional. They hold public meetings to share general teachings. I feel they do this so they can find eligible candidates for their coven/group. They are very secretive and I find them very like-able. They have pointed me in all the right directions and never given me bad advice. Some of their teachings I don't know if I can say I practice, but it is nice being around this pagan family.
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Post by Der Trommler on Jul 15, 2007 10:22:23 GMT -5
Can I face Bruce Almighty instead?
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Post by Der Trommler on Jul 15, 2007 10:24:13 GMT -5
Actually, how about Evan Almighty? I like the Ark...looks cool to ride! Who's up for a river raft ride?
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Post by Lady Anastasia on Jul 15, 2007 17:21:07 GMT -5
lmao... Oh... I think I'd rather face Jebus..
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Post by Der Trommler on Jul 30, 2007 20:11:26 GMT -5
I'm going to add something here. I am Pagan (grew up Catholic), one of my sisters is still Catholic, the other is a Jehovah's Witness. The odd thing is that the 2 people you'd think would be at each others throats, get along in a great theological debate. Although I am not as well versed in my religion as she is.... One thing we got was the understanding of each others choices for religion. She (the JW) removed the Pagan elements of Christianity & has her religion. I, on the other hand, love to celebrate & I found that what I believed was really something that is in the Pagan religion. To each his own. That being said, a good joke should still be allowed. My father used to say, 'I'm not a bigot, I hate everbody equally.' It was his way of saying that jokes are just that...sorry, had to throw that in as a disclaimer to anything that I start typing a way at!
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