Post by Senbecc on May 13, 2006 21:20:32 GMT -5
Here are two links to a treatise on Astronomy that was translated and amended in Irish:
www.ucc.ie/celt/published/G600030/
setis.library.usyd.edu.au/adt/public_html/adt-NU/public/adt-NU20030430.161139/index.html/
The importance of this treatise is not in its Irish origins but in the ways that the Irish saw it based on their existing knowledge. It was a text of the Irish schools when Irish culture was still surviving in a relatively unblemished state from the onslaught of English conquest, Cromwellian atrocities, oppressive laws and a Famine which was largely avoidable if those who had the upper hand also have a pittance of understanding. All of these latter factors created a vacuum for native learning/tradition and also decreased the standing of the Filidh and secular education, while serving to elevate the role of the Catholic Church and its religious teachings among the survivors. But for all these, there would still be schools of the Filidh in Ireland today.
The Tract is thought to have been written in Irish circa 1402 CE. Parts of it are based on Arabian,Greekand Roman thought that was recorded much earlier and preserved at Alexandria, Egypt, and in Seville, Spain.
Here's a sample of what is said in these texts:
3. DICUNT PHILOSOPHI, ET CETERA.
The philosophers declare that there are three motions, i.e., the motion from the centre, the motion towards the centre, and the motion around the centre.
Motion from the centre is the motion that proceeds equally out from the earth to every portion of the surrounding circle. Motion to the centre is the motion that proceeds downwards from the surrounding circle to the earth. Motion around the centre is the motion that revolves with the circle, and from its prime motions is produced every motion that is in the world, and one of these is the motion of the four elements, for some of them move from the centre, and some to the centre, and nothing moves around the centre naturally but the firmament or some portion of it.
Of the two elements that move to the centre, earth and water, the motion to the centre is swifter in earth than in water. Of the two elements that move from the centre, air and fire, fire moves more swiftly from the centre than air. And thus the elements that move to the centre are heavy, and the elements that move from the centre are light. From these facts let us conclude that earth is the heaviest element and fire the lightest. And although the water and the air are temperate between them, compared with each other and with the other elements, heaviness and lightness are found in them, for, although water is heavy compared to air, it is light compared to earth, and thus though air is light compared to water, it is heavy compared to fire.
In order to demonstrate this subject more clearly I shall make a figure here below that will elucidate the meaning, of these words. First I shall make a figure of the earth and write A in the middle of it and I shall put the letter B at the top of it, and then I shall make the circle of the firmament around the earth and put C on the east side of it, and D on the top of it, and E on the west of it, and F on the lower part of it, and on the model of the figure there are two of the elemental bodies moving from the centre to the surrounding circle from A to B and these are fire and air.
There are also the two other bodies which move from the surrounding circle to the centre, i.e., from B to A, and these are earth and water. The third prime motion that exists, i.e., the motion around the surrounding circle, which is the motion of the firmament, moves thus, from C to D and from D to E and from E to F and from F to C, and that is sufficient for the experienced.
4. CALOR ET FRIGIDITAS, ET CETERA.
Heat and cold, wetness and dryness, are the four principal properties of the four elements, and they are accidents inseparable from them, and two of these properties are active, i.e., heat and cold. The reason why they are designated active qualities is that when we touch them, they make known to us then immediately at that very moment their own essence, for when we touch fire, it makes known to us then the essence of its heat. So, when we touch hoar frost it makes known to us then immediately at that same moment the essence of its coldness. The reason why we feel those immoderate things is that we have a moderate nature.
The remaining two properties are passive, and the reason why they are designated passive qualities here is because they do not make known their
powers when touched, for when we touch a wet object or a dry object we do not feel its wetness or its dryness suddenly as we feel the heat of the fire or the cold of the hoarfrost. That is why some of those properties are said to be active and some passive. Every body from the sphere of fire downwards is compounded of these (qualities) and they themselves (the bodies) are simple, even though they are said to be compounded of their own properties as hot, dry fire is a compound of those two properties [i.e., of heat and dryness], since it is those two properties that preponderate in fire. And air is a compound of dryness and dampness, because it is they that preponderate in it and thus is the preponderance of the other two elements with regard to their own properties. Although these four elements are compounded of the principal properties, they are termed simple in comparison with the elemental bodies that are compounded of themselves. Thus these four are both compound and simple. Simple compared to every object that is compounded of themselves. Compound compared to the prime qualities which are essential. Thus it is fitting for a simple body to have a simple motion, and for a compound body to have a compound motion.
And it is clear, that every body in which heat preponderates, moves from the centre upwards; and every body in which cold preponderates, moves in the direction of the centre. It is the heat that causes lightness in the natural bodies and it is the cold that causes heaviness and it is the dryness that causes rapidity of movement towards their natural place in light bodies. In the same way dampness causes slowness of motion in the bodies in which it is. From these statements we conclude that it is the nature of every one of those elements to remain in its own natural position in which is the end of its own motion, because if one of those elements were displaced by force from its own natural position, the nature of it would draw it again to the same position.
*** End of quoted text ***
It's clear from these texts that ancient philosophers and scientists saw all things as being relative to the Earth and to the individual. This is again a reflection of the center and the periphery of existence where order is formed through sources and extremes. Modern points if view see cosmology from entirely different viewpoints. One wonders what the viewpoints of thought will be in the future when our own science and knowledge are seen as archaic? The fringe of such thought is not considering multidimensional space and dimensions that allow for a simplification of field theory and the changes that can exist between matter and energy. An excellent book on the topic is:
Hyperspace, A Scientific Odyssey Through Parallel Universes, Time-Warps and the 10th Dimension, by Michio Kaku
In this book, Kaku's theme is to demonstrate that the essence of the universe is not how it appears or is sensed, but that it can be discovered through a mathematical and scientific "peeling" of the layers of appearances as we encounter them. It is IMO this peeling and expanding process that takes the ancient knowledge forward to the realms of solution and understanding. When we understand a layer, it is time to go beyond and peel another layer or expand an additional understanding.
That is IMO the work of the Druid Way in all things, for all times, and within every form of knowledge. First we study what is known; then we look beneath the surface for understanding; we expand beyond what is known to inquire into the unknown; we discover the wisdom that exists beyond the ordinary, forming the bridge between what is learned and that which can be known.
In this approach we emulate the ancient philosophers:
The philosophers declare that there are three motions, i.e., the motion from the centre, the motion towards the centre, and the motion around the centre.
www.ucc.ie/celt/published/G600030/
setis.library.usyd.edu.au/adt/public_html/adt-NU/public/adt-NU20030430.161139/index.html/
The importance of this treatise is not in its Irish origins but in the ways that the Irish saw it based on their existing knowledge. It was a text of the Irish schools when Irish culture was still surviving in a relatively unblemished state from the onslaught of English conquest, Cromwellian atrocities, oppressive laws and a Famine which was largely avoidable if those who had the upper hand also have a pittance of understanding. All of these latter factors created a vacuum for native learning/tradition and also decreased the standing of the Filidh and secular education, while serving to elevate the role of the Catholic Church and its religious teachings among the survivors. But for all these, there would still be schools of the Filidh in Ireland today.
The Tract is thought to have been written in Irish circa 1402 CE. Parts of it are based on Arabian,Greekand Roman thought that was recorded much earlier and preserved at Alexandria, Egypt, and in Seville, Spain.
Here's a sample of what is said in these texts:
3. DICUNT PHILOSOPHI, ET CETERA.
The philosophers declare that there are three motions, i.e., the motion from the centre, the motion towards the centre, and the motion around the centre.
Motion from the centre is the motion that proceeds equally out from the earth to every portion of the surrounding circle. Motion to the centre is the motion that proceeds downwards from the surrounding circle to the earth. Motion around the centre is the motion that revolves with the circle, and from its prime motions is produced every motion that is in the world, and one of these is the motion of the four elements, for some of them move from the centre, and some to the centre, and nothing moves around the centre naturally but the firmament or some portion of it.
Of the two elements that move to the centre, earth and water, the motion to the centre is swifter in earth than in water. Of the two elements that move from the centre, air and fire, fire moves more swiftly from the centre than air. And thus the elements that move to the centre are heavy, and the elements that move from the centre are light. From these facts let us conclude that earth is the heaviest element and fire the lightest. And although the water and the air are temperate between them, compared with each other and with the other elements, heaviness and lightness are found in them, for, although water is heavy compared to air, it is light compared to earth, and thus though air is light compared to water, it is heavy compared to fire.
In order to demonstrate this subject more clearly I shall make a figure here below that will elucidate the meaning, of these words. First I shall make a figure of the earth and write A in the middle of it and I shall put the letter B at the top of it, and then I shall make the circle of the firmament around the earth and put C on the east side of it, and D on the top of it, and E on the west of it, and F on the lower part of it, and on the model of the figure there are two of the elemental bodies moving from the centre to the surrounding circle from A to B and these are fire and air.
There are also the two other bodies which move from the surrounding circle to the centre, i.e., from B to A, and these are earth and water. The third prime motion that exists, i.e., the motion around the surrounding circle, which is the motion of the firmament, moves thus, from C to D and from D to E and from E to F and from F to C, and that is sufficient for the experienced.
4. CALOR ET FRIGIDITAS, ET CETERA.
Heat and cold, wetness and dryness, are the four principal properties of the four elements, and they are accidents inseparable from them, and two of these properties are active, i.e., heat and cold. The reason why they are designated active qualities is that when we touch them, they make known to us then immediately at that very moment their own essence, for when we touch fire, it makes known to us then the essence of its heat. So, when we touch hoar frost it makes known to us then immediately at that same moment the essence of its coldness. The reason why we feel those immoderate things is that we have a moderate nature.
The remaining two properties are passive, and the reason why they are designated passive qualities here is because they do not make known their
powers when touched, for when we touch a wet object or a dry object we do not feel its wetness or its dryness suddenly as we feel the heat of the fire or the cold of the hoarfrost. That is why some of those properties are said to be active and some passive. Every body from the sphere of fire downwards is compounded of these (qualities) and they themselves (the bodies) are simple, even though they are said to be compounded of their own properties as hot, dry fire is a compound of those two properties [i.e., of heat and dryness], since it is those two properties that preponderate in fire. And air is a compound of dryness and dampness, because it is they that preponderate in it and thus is the preponderance of the other two elements with regard to their own properties. Although these four elements are compounded of the principal properties, they are termed simple in comparison with the elemental bodies that are compounded of themselves. Thus these four are both compound and simple. Simple compared to every object that is compounded of themselves. Compound compared to the prime qualities which are essential. Thus it is fitting for a simple body to have a simple motion, and for a compound body to have a compound motion.
And it is clear, that every body in which heat preponderates, moves from the centre upwards; and every body in which cold preponderates, moves in the direction of the centre. It is the heat that causes lightness in the natural bodies and it is the cold that causes heaviness and it is the dryness that causes rapidity of movement towards their natural place in light bodies. In the same way dampness causes slowness of motion in the bodies in which it is. From these statements we conclude that it is the nature of every one of those elements to remain in its own natural position in which is the end of its own motion, because if one of those elements were displaced by force from its own natural position, the nature of it would draw it again to the same position.
*** End of quoted text ***
It's clear from these texts that ancient philosophers and scientists saw all things as being relative to the Earth and to the individual. This is again a reflection of the center and the periphery of existence where order is formed through sources and extremes. Modern points if view see cosmology from entirely different viewpoints. One wonders what the viewpoints of thought will be in the future when our own science and knowledge are seen as archaic? The fringe of such thought is not considering multidimensional space and dimensions that allow for a simplification of field theory and the changes that can exist between matter and energy. An excellent book on the topic is:
Hyperspace, A Scientific Odyssey Through Parallel Universes, Time-Warps and the 10th Dimension, by Michio Kaku
In this book, Kaku's theme is to demonstrate that the essence of the universe is not how it appears or is sensed, but that it can be discovered through a mathematical and scientific "peeling" of the layers of appearances as we encounter them. It is IMO this peeling and expanding process that takes the ancient knowledge forward to the realms of solution and understanding. When we understand a layer, it is time to go beyond and peel another layer or expand an additional understanding.
That is IMO the work of the Druid Way in all things, for all times, and within every form of knowledge. First we study what is known; then we look beneath the surface for understanding; we expand beyond what is known to inquire into the unknown; we discover the wisdom that exists beyond the ordinary, forming the bridge between what is learned and that which can be known.
In this approach we emulate the ancient philosophers:
The philosophers declare that there are three motions, i.e., the motion from the centre, the motion towards the centre, and the motion around the centre.