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Post by Senbecc on Apr 1, 2007 18:13:13 GMT -5
I simply feel that this is where your trouble will start. Lets say for arguments sake that the kids in the class all get along, and are learning about world regions including Pagan ones. When Christian parents see the work their kids are doing they're going to be down on the entire school for allowing devil worship to be taught in a public setting. The parents of the kids are another consideration, not just the kids themselves. When you bring in religion you open up "fighting ground" for allot of people, as we all know that includes Pagan and Christian alike. A Pagan can be every bit as closed minded and ignorant as a Christian, just as a Christian can be just as much the opposite as a Pagan.
I never went to college and never took any classes on world religion in high school, but I feel I have a pretty fair grasp on such things. If someone wants to learn these things then they will...IMO
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Post by tanath on Apr 1, 2007 18:37:57 GMT -5
I simply feel that this is where your trouble will start. Lets say for arguments sake that the kids in the class all get along, and are learning about world regions including Pagan ones. When Christian parents see the work their kids are doing they're going to be down on the entire school for allowing devil worship to be taught in a public setting. The parents of the kids are another consideration, not just the kids themselves. When you bring in religion you open up "fighting ground" for allot of people, as we all know that includes Pagan and Christian alike. A Pagan can be every bit as closed minded and ignorant as a Christian, just as a Christian can be just as much the opposite as a Pagan. I never went to college and never took any classes on world religion in high school, but I feel I have a pretty fair grasp on such things. If someone wants to learn these things then they will...IMO i know that parents have a tendency to overreact whne it comes to what their kids learn in school. i'm not sure if that will ever change. the only way to find out is to try. it's hard for someone to learn about something if they don't know it's there. i know that many people don't know that paganism is an actual religion that's alive today. there's very little information on it floating around easy to find. most of what's there is half-explained, edited, often biased information on wicca. people are way to concerned with being PC and too happy to sue for any real changes to be made in this area. until people can get over being offended at every little thing and stop having a lawyer on speed-dial nothing can, or will, change.
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Post by Senbecc on Apr 1, 2007 19:23:53 GMT -5
I simply feel that this is where your trouble will start. Lets say for arguments sake that the kids in the class all get along, and are learning about world regions including Pagan ones. When Christian parents see the work their kids are doing they're going to be down on the entire school for allowing devil worship to be taught in a public setting. The parents of the kids are another consideration, not just the kids themselves. When you bring in religion you open up "fighting ground" for allot of people, as we all know that includes Pagan and Christian alike. A Pagan can be every bit as closed minded and ignorant as a Christian, just as a Christian can be just as much the opposite as a Pagan. I never went to college and never took any classes on world religion in high school, but I feel I have a pretty fair grasp on such things. If someone wants to learn these things then they will...IMO i know that parents have a tendency to overreact whne it comes to what their kids learn in school. i'm not sure if that will ever change. the only way to find out is to try. it's hard for someone to learn about something if they don't know it's there. i know that many people don't know that paganism is an actual religion that's alive today. there's very little information on it floating around easy to find. most of what's there is half-explained, edited, often biased information on wicca. people are way to concerned with being PC and too happy to sue for any real changes to be made in this area. until people can get over being offended at every little thing and stop having a lawyer on speed-dial nothing can, or will, change. LoL, in a world where you can sue McDonald's for making your coffee to hot, or someone for slipping in your own spill I just wonder if that would happen. I understand the only way to do it is to try, its more or less just my job to argue with everybody I do see ya'lls points though. While I don't know if I would call "paganism" in-and-of it's self a religion it is important that people understand there is more to the world than the debates between say Catholicism and say Baptism. The problem is, once you get all these people in the same room whats going to happen? "Goddess-n-God? But the Bible says..." "The bible is fake because..." "Don't you know all your gods are demons trying to trick you?" and one of my personal favorites, "So this is what created the world? So what created that? OK, what created that, what created that?"...It is simply human nature to seek out those of like mind, and try to "convert" others to someone else's way of thinking, and more often than not when nuh uh, and you're stupid don't get it, you get to the heavier insults and finally to meet me after school. Then again this could just be me having been raised in the Bible belt, but I'll bet you'll have that and parents suing anywhere you try it.
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Post by tanath on Apr 1, 2007 20:15:07 GMT -5
i know that parents have a tendency to overreact whne it comes to what their kids learn in school. i'm not sure if that will ever change. the only way to find out is to try. it's hard for someone to learn about something if they don't know it's there. i know that many people don't know that paganism is an actual religion that's alive today. there's very little information on it floating around easy to find. most of what's there is half-explained, edited, often biased information on wicca. people are way to concerned with being PC and too happy to sue for any real changes to be made in this area. until people can get over being offended at every little thing and stop having a lawyer on speed-dial nothing can, or will, change. LoL, in a world where you can sue McDonald's for making your coffee to hot, or someone for slipping in your own spill I just wonder if that would happen. I understand the only way to do it is to try, its more or less just my job to argue with everybody I do see ya'lls points though. While I don't know if I would call "paganism" in-and-of it's self a religion it is important that people understand there is more to the world than the debates between say Catholicism and say Baptism. The problem is, once you get all these people in the same room whats going to happen? "Goddess-n-God? But the Bible says..." "The bible is fake because..." "Don't you know all your gods are demons trying to trick you?" and one of my personal favorites, "So this is what created the world? So what created that? OK, what created that, what created that?"...It is simply human nature to seek out those of like mind, and try to "convert" others to someone else's way of thinking, and more often than not when nuh uh, and you're stupid don't get it, you get to the heavier insults and finally to meet me after school. Then again this could just be me having been raised in the Bible belt, but I'll bet you'll have that and parents suing anywhere you try it. i think classes that have the potential to cause heavy debate should be offered only to juniors and seniors. by that point students are hopefully mature enough to handle it. the possiblity of having to have a teacher sign off on it saying the student is mature enough could also be used. having parents a waiver or whatever on schedules wouldn't hurt either. i will never understand why people try so hard to make others think the way they do. i don't want everyone to think the exact same thing as me. all i want is for people to realize and admit that there are other ways of looking at an issue.
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Post by Der Trommler on Apr 2, 2007 8:06:15 GMT -5
I'm not against someone teaching about the Bible but I do agree that it should be changed to a more History or Religions or World Religions rather than just the Bible. I still believe that because our Christian symbolism prevails, the world looks at us VERY differently. You have Bush telling America that our war on terrorism is a Crusade. That's a visual to some that probably lost their minds! So, in all, the Bible really shouldn't be taught UNLESS it is looked at only as a book. Take the religion out of it & find out how it really works. There are too many variables that always seem to find those cracks. I wouldn't mind the idea if it is unbiased. The other problem is like John said....Kids in a high school setting take things too far about anything. Far too many times has there been trouble with those not like others. Take for example, if all those kids are Christians, they take the class & a few do not for whatever reason....you then have a possibility of the non-bible class kids getting trouble from the bible taking ones. Does that make sense?
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Post by theoccultchrist on Apr 2, 2007 9:51:51 GMT -5
I do feel they do need to offer other religions as courses as well. Not only that but there are WAY too many different Bibles to go by. Book of Matthew, The King James, etc... Each Bible has it's own interpretation of what was written (I had this discussion with my sister (the Jehovah's Witness). She uses a newer one that is a complete translator. In other words, it has the word in question with a reference attached to it. Makes it very easy reading as far as I'm concerned. But I still think that if you do offer this as reading material, you need to have enough material for the other religions. America, after all, is a melting pot. It has a diverse group of peoples & religions. If you can offer one religion, another one should be offered as well. That's my opinion anyway...... I agree that if you chose to have a "Relgion(s)" class then you should talk about more than just one interpretation of one relgion. its sad really. when I was in High school..I got lucky..There wasnt any crazy fundi teachers like that (Well okay there was..but they were smart enoughnot to try to make a class about it) Even when I got to college, I thought okay they'll be more open minded..nope I was wrong...I forgot my city is fundie town land-ville. WE have two extremes no middle ground they are either extremy conservative or extremly liberal. I was dissapointed in my Philosophy of Religion class..because it only discussed mainly Christianity so instead of "Philosophy of religion" they should change it to Philosophy of "The Christian" Relgion" Then I took A Special Topics History class on Early Christian History *And The Prof. Is really liberal*..I actually enjoyed myself in that class and I got a B *Cause I knew most the stuff anyway* It was neat we talked about Gnosticism..and alot of History of the Bible and what not *The real History..haha..what secular scholars say* It made alot of Christians in the class feel uncomfortable...because it made them think a little bit. We have a Sociology of Relgion class *Which I need to take for my major* but I havent yet..but I heard its pretty interesting..and the Prof. tries to be fair and balanced. There is an alternative Religons and Cults class *Same Prof as Christian Heresy..I mean History ha* -- I havent taken it yet..but I heards when he gets to Paganism its really lacking *Though he's supposedly wrote a book about the Odin Brotherhood* But It kinda irks be that he lumps "other Relgions" in with the "Cults" he teaches about. Its like "Okay this is what the Wiccans believe, this is what the Odinists believe..and here is what the Heavens gate and the Branch Daviddians believed"....I think it sends a wrong message. so yeah. I wish we actually had a religious studies departement and they actually teached about Christianity, Judasim, Islam, Bhuddism, Paganism, AND i ALSO THINK IT'D BE NEAT IF WE HAD A CLASS THAT TALKED ABOut like the Kabbalah, Sufi (Islamic Mysticism) and Gnosticism/other forms of Christian Mysticism.... However until people become more open minded and accepting..I don't see that happening anytime in the near future.
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Post by theoccultchrist on Apr 2, 2007 10:02:47 GMT -5
I do feel they do need to offer other religions as courses as well. Not only that but there are WAY too many different Bibles to go by. Book of Matthew, The King James, etc... Each Bible has it's own interpretation of what was written (I had this discussion with my sister (the Jehovah's Witness). She uses a newer one that is a complete translator. In other words, it has the word in question with a reference attached to it. Makes it very easy reading as far as I'm concerned. But I still think that if you do offer this as reading material, you need to have enough material for the other religions. America, after all, is a melting pot. It has a diverse group of peoples & religions. If you can offer one religion, another one should be offered as well. That's my opinion anyway...... I agree that if you chose to have a "Relgion(s)" class then you should talk about more than just one interpretation of one relgion. its sad really. when I was in High school..I got lucky..There wasnt any crazy fundi teachers like that (Well okay there was..but they were smart enoughnot to try to make a class about it) Even when I got to college, I thought okay they'll be more open minded..nope I was wrong...I forgot my city is fundie town land-ville. WE have two extremes no middle ground they are either extremy conservative or extremly liberal. I was dissapointed in my Philosophy of Religion class..because it only discussed mainly Christianity so instead of "Philosophy of religion" they should change it to Philosophy of "The Christian" Relgion" Then I took A Special Topics History class on Early Christian History *And The Prof. Is really liberal*..I actually enjoyed myself in that class and I got a B *Cause I knew most the stuff anyway* It was neat we talked about Gnosticism..and alot of History of the Bible and what not *The real History..haha..what secular scholars say* It made alot of Christians in the class feel uncomfortable...because it made them think a little bit. We have a Sociology of Relgion class *Which I need to take for my major* but I havent yet..but I heard its pretty interesting..and the Prof. tries to be fair and balanced. There is an alternative Religons and Cults class *Same Prof as Christian Heresy..I mean History ha* -- I havent taken it yet..but I heards when he gets to Paganism its really lacking *Though he's supposedly wrote a book about the Odin Brotherhood* But It kinda irks be that he lumps "other Relgions" in with the "Cults" he teaches about. Its like "Okay this is what the Wiccans believe, this is what the Odinists believe..and here is what the Heavens gate and the Branch Daviddians believed"....I think it sends a wrong message. so yeah. I wish we actually had a religious studies departement and they actually teached about Christianity, Judasim, Islam, Bhuddism, Paganism, AND i ALSO THINK IT'D BE NEAT IF WE HAD A CLASS THAT TALKED ABOut like the Kabbalah, Sufi (Islamic Mysticism) and Gnosticism/other forms of Christian Mysticism.... However until people become more open minded and accepting..I don't see that happening anytime in the near future. However, My G/f and her friends managed to get a Pagan-Fellowship CLub Started on Campus *Since the Chrsitians have Campus Crusade and Whatnot* ..the only problem is now we can't get the campus Pagans to come outta the woodwork..we know they're there..
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Post by Lady Anastasia on Apr 2, 2007 13:37:46 GMT -5
But again.... The way to build tolerance, and to see a change in people becoming more open minded is through education...
Just saying over and over people aren't open minded enough for it... Helps nothing... That is the reason why this type of class should be taught...
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