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Ethics
Aug 20, 2006 16:07:00 GMT -5
Post by wren on Aug 20, 2006 16:07:00 GMT -5
I have read time and time again, in the study of different pagan paths, that one should never perform 'magic' for personal gain. Worded differently perhaps, but it still boils down to the same ethical standard. Whether it be divination for another person's benefit, shamanic healing to cure an illness, teaching a course on the magical properties of stones, or other magical efforts, we are supposed to offer these for the benefit of others and never benefit personally from these actions. Aren't we?
So, why then do people sell spell kits over the internet or magically-charged oils through mail order or charge for courses and readings? Is it truly part of our ethics not to ask a fee for a magical service? If so, why? If not, why not?
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Ethics
Aug 23, 2006 17:31:37 GMT -5
Post by Senbecc on Aug 23, 2006 17:31:37 GMT -5
I have read time and time again, in the study of different pagan paths, that one should never perform 'magic' for personal gain. Worded differently perhaps, but it still boils down to the same ethical standard. Whether it be divination for another person's benefit, shamanic healing to cure an illness, teaching a course on the magical properties of stones, or other magical efforts, we are supposed to offer these for the benefit of others and never benefit personally from these actions. Aren't we? So, why then do people sell spell kits over the internet or magically-charged oils through mail order or charge for courses and readings? Is it truly part of our ethics not to ask a fee for a magical service? If so, why? If not, why not? Yes, I also feel these magical kits are a bit silly. It tells newer practioners and studies that if they practice "magick" they can just have what ever they want...They walk away discouraged and down on all pagan paths. I maintain that magic is knowldge and more importantly knowledge temper by wisdom. Each item in this "magic kit" must be fully understood and the tenents of spell casting fully understood to work...They simply set people up to fail imo. I think using magic when it's a nessesity is key. When I use healing magic for a certain person the most I've ever accepted in return is an apple pie...One person's craft for another seems plenty fair enough IMO.
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Ethics
Aug 25, 2006 18:06:11 GMT -5
Post by wren on Aug 25, 2006 18:06:11 GMT -5
And, yet, there are people I know and respect who do offer their services for a fee. An upcoming pagan festival will have a lecture on how to make money with magic. It seems to be completely at odds with the idea of not profitting from such work. Or, am I missing something?
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Ethics
Aug 28, 2006 22:30:43 GMT -5
Post by stormcat on Aug 28, 2006 22:30:43 GMT -5
I once questioned a psychic about her charging for readings. She told me that people don't want free advice, they pay attention to what costs them. I see where she was coming from, I won't take payment. I just think for me it's not for sale. I would make charms and get donations for the Humane Society though. Besides I'd hate to see in the past and not the future, mess things up.>^..^<
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Ethics
Aug 29, 2006 12:13:48 GMT -5
Post by wren on Aug 29, 2006 12:13:48 GMT -5
Besides I'd hate to see in the past and not the future, mess things up.>^..^<
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Ethics
Aug 29, 2006 19:46:22 GMT -5
Post by stormcat on Aug 29, 2006 19:46:22 GMT -5
OK, sometimes what I see isn't the future, it's a past occurrence. I know it sound weird but I don't use my divination skills to often. So they are spotty, it's true the more you use them the better you get. When it's a family member it's worse, I usually draw a blank because of personal relationships. But sometimes things just push themselves into my mind, I have to tell people what's coming through. I probably just made this worse instead of better. ::)Sorry if it's still confusing! >^-.-^<
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Ethics
Aug 30, 2006 12:53:41 GMT -5
Post by wren on Aug 30, 2006 12:53:41 GMT -5
No, I understand. You'd hate to charge, only to see something and not feel you're interpreting correctly, right?
But, I'm still left to wonder, if we do not live up to this particular 'tenet' of our beliefs, what does that say about all of our beliefs?
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Ethics
Aug 30, 2006 22:04:16 GMT -5
Post by Senbecc on Aug 30, 2006 22:04:16 GMT -5
And, yet, there are people I know and respect who do offer their services for a fee. An upcoming pagan festival will have a lecture on how to make money with magic. It seems to be completely at odds with the idea of not profitting from such work. Or, am I missing something? Well if it's like stormcat said, and they're using the profits as charity, or as funds for the coven or group thats one thing, but as for keeping the money for yourself alone...I'd be torn on that I think...
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Ethics
Aug 31, 2006 8:43:27 GMT -5
Post by stormcat on Aug 31, 2006 8:43:27 GMT -5
Well number 2 of the Wicca Rede is; Live an' let live-fairly take and fairly give. So I guess you could barter your services and not profit. I barter my service as a nurse for cash, I see other service professions doing it too. It's just when you could be impacting someones life with a reading, seems to be a different thing. I see it that way, just my opinion. From what I've read from you, you seem to be a solid person with ethics. Listen yto your inner Wren! >^..^<
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Ethics
Aug 31, 2006 12:59:36 GMT -5
Post by wren on Aug 31, 2006 12:59:36 GMT -5
Listen to your inner Wren! >^..^< *tweet* I agree about bartering and charity, after all my daughter and I make and sell things for the MS Society and give 100% to them. It's when I see people actually selling services or magically-charged items that I wonder about the ethics of it. I support pagan sites for my supplies, after all, but at the same time wonder about making a profit from such items and services. You mentioned that someone said people prefer to pay, but would that not shift the balance? And, if one of the tenents of druidry is service, how can we charge for that service?
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Ethics
Sept 2, 2006 21:46:39 GMT -5
Post by stormcat on Sept 2, 2006 21:46:39 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with selling Crystals, Wands, Statuary and books. If they aren't promised to solve "all your problems." It's just using the Second sight for gain that I avoid doing. As so far as "spells to go", you can get spells from all kinds of books. Once again it's the promise of success and the end of your trouble. Let me hear a louder and more robust song from that little Wrens throat! >^-.-^< P.S. Not all Psychics are Pagans and not all Pagans are Psychics!
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Ethics
Sept 7, 2006 13:10:32 GMT -5
Post by nevyn on Sept 7, 2006 13:10:32 GMT -5
Well number 2 of the Wicca Rede is; Live an' let live-fairly take and fairly give. So I guess you could barter your services and not profit. I barter my service as a nurse for cash, I see other service professions doing it too. It's just when you could be impacting someones life with a reading, seems to be a different thing. I see it that way, just my opinion. From what I've read from you, you seem to be a solid person with ethics. Listen yto your inner Wren! >^..^< There is a difference between making a living and making a profit and bartering is a great way to handle the conflict. I have heard this argument in a very interesting place, John Edward, the t.v. psychic extrodinaire, went thru the same internal debate and discussed it in one of his books. He's written a few books, so I'm not sure exactly which one it was, either One Last Time, or Crossing Over.. It's been a while since I read it, so I won't quote it, but he came to the understanding with his guides that he would do his thing to help people and to try to support his growing family. Anything else he gains from the readings that goes beyond necessities is given to his charity. He is not a (professed) witch, but he seems to have had the same ethical dillema. btw, anyone who thinks John's a crack-pot, you have the right to your opinions, but he is a very ethical person who really had a hard time with the whole charging someone for a reading.
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Ethics
Sept 15, 2006 9:11:52 GMT -5
Post by Senbecc on Sept 15, 2006 9:11:52 GMT -5
Well number 2 of the Wicca Rede is; Live an' let live-fairly take and fairly give. So I guess you could barter your services and not profit. I barter my service as a nurse for cash, I see other service professions doing it too. It's just when you could be impacting someones life with a reading, seems to be a different thing. I see it that way, just my opinion. From what I've read from you, you seem to be a solid person with ethics. Listen yto your inner Wren! >^..^< There is a difference between making a living and making a profit and bartering is a great way to handle the conflict. I have heard this argument in a very interesting place, John Edward, the t.v. psychic extrodinaire, went thru the same internal debate and discussed it in one of his books. He's written a few books, so I'm not sure exactly which one it was, either One Last Time, or Crossing Over.. It's been a while since I read it, so I won't quote it, but he came to the understanding with his guides that he would do his thing to help people and to try to support his growing family. Anything else he gains from the readings that goes beyond necessities is given to his charity. He is not a (professed) witch, but he seems to have had the same ethical dillema. btw, anyone who thinks John's a crack-pot, you have the right to your opinions, but he is a very ethical person who really had a hard time with the whole charging someone for a reading. I used to watch his show on the Sci-fi channel, I honestly felt he was legit to tell the truth, I suppose there are acceptions to every rule. If he can give these people with lost loved ones some piece of mind and make a buck at the same time why not...I suppose I'm a little more torn on this subject than I thought.
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Ethics
Sept 15, 2006 12:40:36 GMT -5
Post by wren on Sept 15, 2006 12:40:36 GMT -5
...I suppose I'm a little more torn on this subject than I thought. That's my situation exactly. Torn.
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Ethics
Sept 22, 2006 0:44:48 GMT -5
Post by bran_sinnach on Sept 22, 2006 0:44:48 GMT -5
I think that there is a distinct difference between merely selling goods such as crystals and herbs and selling these "magic kits" to those that merely want a fix it now solution. The booklets might give them the knowledge about the contents of the kit and what words to say, but it fails to teach them the wisdom that this knowledge becomes through diligent practice and study, that I feel, is necesarry for magic to work, especially for it to work safely. And as for charging for services, I think there is a line between charging for the use of talents such as divination and the like, and charging for more religious based workings such as teaching others about paganism or performing blessings and ceremonies. While it is only natural to charge for the use of a talent, which is what every job is when it boils down to it, I do not agree with charging money for religious services as Ive known others to do. In all the times Ive been asked before, the only thing Ill accept is gratitude, though on the few occasions Ive been offered gifts rather than currency Ive accepted them because then it truly means something for the other person and is a way of showing thanks, and because it would be blatantly rude of me to not accept.
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