|
Post by Lady Anastasia on Feb 18, 2007 0:45:46 GMT -5
This leads us to the question, does the Threefold Law apply to everyone, even if they do not believe in it? Looking at other religions, one is somewhat surprised to find that in most belief systems there seems to be some kind of karma theory. From "You reap what you sow" to "Every action has an equal but opposite reaction" to "You get what you give." They all seem very similar, differing only in the amount of energy that gets returned, whether one is Wiccan, Christian, Hindu, or a follower of Science and its laws. When it comes down to it though, does it really matter whether the Threefold Law applies to people besides Wiccans? Ideally we should focus on our own actions, instead of analyzing and making a fuss about other people's! Like our perceptions of the Divine, it is my belief that the concept of karma chiefly should fill the role of giving Justice÷not retribution or vengeance. section from article. www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usxx&c=teen&id=3784That is an Excellent response Kitty... I believe that Like energy attracts like... If you put out negative, that is what you are going to get back... Do I think that this is Karmically linked, no, but, I can see where other's would feel that way
|
|
|
Post by KittyLane on Feb 18, 2007 0:50:54 GMT -5
This leads us to the question, does the Threefold Law apply to everyone, even if they do not believe in it? Looking at other religions, one is somewhat surprised to find that in most belief systems there seems to be some kind of karma theory. From "You reap what you sow" to "Every action has an equal but opposite reaction" to "You get what you give." They all seem very similar, differing only in the amount of energy that gets returned, whether one is Wiccan, Christian, Hindu, or a follower of Science and its laws. When it comes down to it though, does it really matter whether the Threefold Law applies to people besides Wiccans? Ideally we should focus on our own actions, instead of analyzing and making a fuss about other people's! Like our perceptions of the Divine, it is my belief that the concept of karma chiefly should fill the role of giving Justice÷not retribution or vengeance. section from article. www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usxx&c=teen&id=3784That is an Excellent response Kitty... I believe that Like energy attracts like... If you put out negative, that is what you are going to get back... Do I think that this is Karmically linked, no, but, I can see where other's would feel that way yes that really is what it boils down to. even before my studies into wicca and witchcraft, this was something i had long ago learned. it is a tried and true system. it is not something that is only "wiccan" it is a way to look at life, and how YOU put your energies out there. because everything does come around.
|
|
|
Post by wren on Feb 18, 2007 0:53:05 GMT -5
'Reaping what you sow', however, does not necessarily mean in a karmic sense. If I hurt someone, if I steal, if I break man's laws... I can expect to find some sort of return for my investment. That is not necessarily karma or predestination. It is the direct result of my choices... good, bad or indifferent.
And, yes, John, I agree with your interpretation of those statements but I still see that as us creating and not 'someone else' guiding us on that path...
|
|
|
Post by Lady Anastasia on Feb 18, 2007 0:57:08 GMT -5
yes that really is what it boils down to. even before my studies into wicca and witchcraft, this was something i had long ago learned. it is a tried and true system. it is not something that is only "wiccan" it is a way to look at life, and how YOU put your energies out there. because everything does come around. I have to agree with that.. But, I still don't see the rule of three.. Not for me, I don't live by it.. I don't fear doing things because of the "Karmic" Repercussions... We should really post something about what karma really is too, but, It's a system of checks and balances for me.. I believe that if you spend the majority of your time doing positive, thinking positive, etc... You are going to get positive results... Not only that, but, if I'm positive 90% of the time... It's going to balance the Scale for me... That 10% of the time that I am negative.. it's not going to send me spiraling Karmically...
|
|
|
Post by Lady Anastasia on Feb 18, 2007 1:05:52 GMT -5
'Reaping what you sow', however, does not necessarily mean in a karmic sense. If I hurt someone, if I steal, if I break man's laws... I can expect to find some sort of return for my investment. That is not necessarily karma or predestination. It is the direct result of my choices... good, bad or indifferent. And, yes, John, I agree with your interpretation of those statements but I still see that as us creating and not 'someone else' guiding us on that path... You say it sooo pretty... lol.. But, I agree with your statement... Predestination... Hmmm... I believe that our Souls have a purpose, and, finding out what that purpose is, that's the goal, that's the purpose.. Is it predetermind, I don't know, possibly, but, we make the choices that we make because of Free will... the fact that we make our own choices and that we are accountable for out actions is how we learn.. The lessons that we learn are part of finding out who and what we are... SO, I don't know if I am making any sense or not... lol But, that's what I think
|
|
|
Post by KittyLane on Feb 18, 2007 1:06:29 GMT -5
The Law of KarmaIn Buddhist teaching, the law of karma, says only this: `for every event that occurs, there will follow another event whose existence was caused by the first, and this second event will be pleasant or unpleasant according as its cause was skillful or unskillful.' A skillful event is one that is not accompanied by craving, resistance or delusions; an unskillful event is one that is accompanied by any one of those things. (Events are not skillful in themselves, but are so called only in virtue of the mental events that occur with them.) Therefore, the law of Karma teaches that responsibility for unskillful actions is born by the person who commits them.Let's take an example of a sequence of events. An unpleasant sensation occurs. A thought arises that the source of the unpleasantness was a person. (This thought is a delusion; any decisions based upon it will therefore be unskillful.) A thought arises that some past sensations of unpleasantness issued from this same person. (This thought is a further delusion.) This is followed by a willful decision to speak words that will produce an unpleasant sensation in that which is perceived as a person. (This decision is an act of hostility. Of all the events described so far, only this is called a karma.) Words are carefully chosen in the hopes that when heard they will cause pain. The words are pronounced aloud. (This is the execution of the decision to be hostile. It may also be classed as a kind of karma, although technically it is an after-karma.) There is a visual sensation of a furrowed brow and downturned mouth. The thought arises that the other person's face is frowning. The thought arises that the other person's feelings were hurt. There is a fleeting joyful feeling of success in knowing that one has scored a damaging verbal blow. Eventually (perhaps much later) there is an unpleasant sensation of regret, perhaps taking the form of a sensation of fear that the perceived enemy may retaliate, or perhaps taking the form of remorse on having acted impetuously, like an immature child, and hping that no one will remember this childish action. (This regret or fear is the unpleasant ripening of the karma, the unskillful decision to inflict pain through words.) If there are no persons at all, then there is no self and no other. There is no distinction between pain of which there is direct sensual awareness (which is conventionally called one's own pain) and pain that is known through inference (conventionally called another person's pain). Whether pain is known directly or indirectly, there is either an urge to quell it or an urge to cultivate it. Whether joy is known directly or indirectly, there is either an urge to nourish it or to quell it. In the conventional language of speaking of events personally, the urge to quell all pain and to nourish all joy is known as being ethical or skillful or (if you like) good. The urge to nourish pain and quell joy is known as being unskillful, unethical or bad. Being fully ethical is said to be impossible for those who make a distinction between self and other and show preference for the perceived self over the perceived other, for such perceptions inhibit being fully responsive. Being fully ethical is possible only for those who realize that all persons are empty, that is, devoid of personhood. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma
|
|
|
Post by KittyLane on Feb 18, 2007 1:08:44 GMT -5
The law of karma underpins the process of transmigration of the soul. Karma literally means "action," but more often refers to the accumulated reactions to activities. Thus we talk of "good karma" and "bad karma," which are stored reactions that gradually unfold to determine our unique destiny. The self-determination and accountability of the individual soul rests on its capacity for free choice. This is exercised only in the human form. Whilst in lower species, the atman takes no moral decisions but is instead bound by instinct. Therefore, although all species of life are subject to the reactions of past activities, such karma is generated only while in the human form. Human life alone is a life of responsibility. The Bhagavad-gita categorises karma, listing three kinds of human actions: (1) Karma: those which elevate, (2) Vikarma: those which degrade and (3) Akarma: those which create neither good nor bad reactions and thus lead to liberation. hinduism.iskcon.com/concepts/103.htm
|
|
|
Post by Lady Anastasia on Feb 18, 2007 1:14:53 GMT -5
lol... oh wow... Kitty is on fire tonight.. I mention getting the information, and she did.. lol... Kitty, you suck
|
|
|
Post by Lady Anastasia on Feb 18, 2007 1:15:42 GMT -5
To begin, we need to clear up some popular misconceptions about karma. We are not punished or made to pay for past mistakes, or rewarded for good deeds, nor has it anything to do with cause and effect. Karma means action, and is the process by which our thoughts shape our lives. It consists of the many different thought patterns and imprints on our consciousness that are creating the events of our lives. Below are listed the various categories of karmic influence, and the ways to clear them. 1. Beliefs. These are basic raw materials out of which we create our reality. They affect our actions, our thoughts, and tend to become self-fulfilling prophecies. They are never formed by one event alone, but form in stages. In infancy, when our minds are formative, we are observing the events in our lives in order to form a map of what life is about. Very early events sensitise us to the possibility of beliefs that might form. A second event will be used to test a belief, and a third event to prove it, before it is stored and used to measure our lives. We create a belief by the meaning and significance we give to each event. Beliefs will not be changed just by affirmations, as the subconscious requires sensory experience to test and prove the belief. We need to remember the initial sensitising event, the testing event and the proving event, and give a new meaning and significance to those events. This can be done through regression therapy. 2. Choices. Some of the deep choices we made early in life are still affecting us, even though we may have forgotten what those choices were. Choices made in great emotional intensity are stored deep in the subconscious, and if we push down a traumatic experience so we don't have to feel it any more, we cannot access and change the choice that was made at that time. The power of the choice depends upon the intensity of emotion in which it is made. For example, suppose that in your childhood you had been struggling to get what you want, and after being slapped down, in a moment of humiliation or disappointment, you decide to settle for less. Later in life, when you are trying to build success, love or happiness, you are always settling for less than you could have. The old choice is colouring every new choice that you make. Once the old choice has been accessed, it can be superseded by new choice, provided that the new choice is made in the same intensity as the old. This means going back to remember the event in all it's intensity. Regression and emotional release therapies can help here. 3. Personal Laws. In early childhood, we all go through a stage when we need to make sense of the chaos, in order to lessen the confusion and pain, so we tend to make a law defining the limits in our lives, and having given ourselves a satisfactory explanation, we can be at peace. Some of these laws can be very restrictive. For example, if we are having to work while we see other children receiving good things, we might make the law that we are here to serve rather than to enjoy ourselves. We can have laws that forbid us love, wealth, power or expression, or hold us in various limited roles. We cannot break these laws without punishing ourselves. Laws are held more deeply than beliefs, as they are formed as part of our survival instinct, and are formed in the unconscious, beyond words. For this reason they cannot be reached by normal counselling. They have a form in the unconscious, that can be broken down shamanically, if you can find where they are stored in the underworld. This depends on having the right kind of allies. The most effective allies to do this work are dark elves. The underworld journey, with the assistance of dark elves, is the most powerful method for erasing personal laws. 4. Futures. At any moment, there are many possible futures trying to happen. They all compete for our attention, as that is the food they need to grow, until they can manifest. Each future is having impact upon us, as it tries to draw us towards it. A negative future stimulates negative thoughts and feelings in us, whereas a positive future tends to produce positive thoughts and feelings. Regardless of which futures actually manifest, they are all having impact on you now. It is therefore important to destroy the negative futures and redirect our mental energy into the positive ones. A shamanic journey can be used to weed and cultivate our futures. 5. Imprints. Although we create our own reality, we have impact on each other, and energies we pick up from others interferes with the life we are creating. Our subconscious tends to be sticky, and picks things up easily and stores them. Our auras are often full of old thought forms, that begin to imprint on our subconscious, so that we gradually take on the thoughts and feelings we pick up from outside. We are imprinted with negative conditioning from others since early childhood, and often have other peoples shame dumped on us. These imprints vary in strength from simple thought forms that come from emotionally charged statements, to deliberate curses, controlling spells, and entity possession. What all these things have in common is that they are not a part of us, and therefore we don't need to process them all individually, we just need to clean them all out of our energy fields. Our energy system has the means to do this: The raising of the kundalini will purify us of all these influences. It can also be done through shamanic purification rituals. 6. Karmic Webbing. Our etheric bodies consist of a kind of vital web. We each have individual web patterns according to the individual expressions of our life force. As soon as we enter incarnation with a destiny in mind, we create the unique web-pattern that will best enable us to express our unique talents and live our chosen destinies. However, as our destinies change, old webbing from a previous expression can remain, and if that kind of expression no longer agrees with how we live our lives now, the old webbing interferes with our present life expression. For instance, if our last life was about serving and now we are trying to be a warrior, the karmic webbing of serving makes it very difficult to express our power as a warrior. Old webbing will be burned away by the raising of the kundalini, if you have done sufficient spiritual practice. The other way is through etheric weaving, a healing technique learned from faeries, and performed by the Tethatu shaman. Through faerie magick, we gain the perception to see the etheric web, and the ability to reweave it. The old karmic web can be dismantled, and any damage to the vital web can be repaired. 7. Samskara. This is a sanskrit name for a particularly heavy kind of karmic imprint. Any action you repeat for long enough becomes imprinted on your etheric body. For example, if you read a lot all your life, reading is the easiest thing for you to do. If you suddenly decide to become an athlete, you find that you are not built for athletics. It is not just that the body lacks the conditioning; your energy body is also shaped by your actions. Note that this kind of habitual imprint is not stored emotionally; it is purely etheric, so no amount of psychotherapy will shift it. If you do the same thing for seven life times, the imprinting has become really fixed and is called a samskara. It is as if you have made this expression of your life force into your permanent identity. As an example, suppose that you had seven or more celibate life times. If you now wish to manifest a relationship, your etheric body cannot hold the resonance, and so you never succeed in love, and nothing you do changes that. A samskara is too dense to be released by normal techniques; it requires divine intervention or high magick. The tethatu shaman is trained to channel such powers to dissolve the samskara from a patient. from www.azizshamanism.com/karma.html
|
|
|
Post by KittyLane on Feb 18, 2007 1:16:23 GMT -5
lol... oh wow... Kitty is on fire tonight.. I mention getting the information, and she did.. lol... Kitty, you suck i know i suck BIG TIME
|
|
|
Post by Lady Anastasia on Feb 18, 2007 1:21:26 GMT -5
lol... oh wow... Kitty is on fire tonight.. I mention getting the information, and she did.. lol... Kitty, you suck i know i suck BIG TIME lol... Though, I think that we don't completely agree on what karma is.... there is no reason for us to ....lol (these smiley's kick ass) We shall instead and, then until finally we collapse into a ;D
|
|
|
Post by KittyLane on Feb 18, 2007 1:25:20 GMT -5
i know i suck BIG TIME lol... Though, I think that we don't completely agree on what karma is.... there is no reason for us to ....lol (these smiley's kick ass) We shall instead and, then until finally we collapse into a ;D LOL Ya, It's fun to be in disagreement but we do it so well
|
|
|
Post by Lady Anastasia on Feb 18, 2007 1:34:51 GMT -5
lol... Though, I think that we don't completely agree on what karma is.... there is no reason for us to ....lol (these smiley's kick ass) We shall instead and, then until finally we collapse into a ;D LOL Ya, It's fun to be in disagreement but we do it so well lol...
|
|
|
Post by Senbecc on Feb 18, 2007 5:12:20 GMT -5
As for the rule of three.....I believe the proper wiccan belief is not that what you put out comes back to you threefold. It's that it will come back in one of three ways. Hell if I can remember for certain what those are. Don't much care either. Never heard that one...If you happen to remember what the three are, it sounds like an interesting study. A Druid often follows what is called his "pattern" in some groves. This isn't unlike what you've described. The further one wanders from that pattern the less harmonious their life becomes. I suppose one could see the natural dances of the cosmos *as* deity if they were so inclined, as each has these dame dances within their own cosmos which might be what the Torah for example meant when it said "let us create man in our image"?
|
|
|
Post by Senbecc on Feb 18, 2007 5:16:38 GMT -5
'Reaping what you sow', however, does not necessarily mean in a karmic sense. If I hurt someone, if I steal, if I break man's laws... I can expect to find some sort of return for my investment. That is not necessarily karma or predestination. It is the direct result of my choices... good, bad or indifferent. And, yes, John, I agree with your interpretation of those statements but I still see that as us creating and not 'someone else' guiding us on that path... But why would a deity need to be 'someone'? Why could we not be created in a god's image on a symbolic level? As a Druid, I don't believe in Karma what-so-ever. I do however believe in a heirachy of sorts.
|
|