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Post by Der Trommler on Sept 12, 2006 22:48:09 GMT -5
As I am beginning my path along the Celtic Tradition, I am at a crossroads. As there seems to be 2 Celtic traditions, would someone be able to summize the main differences between Irish & Scottish Celtic? I am both from Irish & Scottish descent, so any help would be immensey appreciated!
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Post by wren on Sept 13, 2006 15:50:07 GMT -5
I am only just rediscovering my own Scottish roots. I found a study into the actual history of Scotland, the tribes and the conflicts with Rome to be very helpful in understanding what became a united Scotland and formed the basis of the Gaelic culture there. While the lowlands allied more with England's customs and practices, it is the Highlands where a hearth culture developed.
There is nowhere near the extent of material available from Scotland as Irland on ancient lore, law, etc. but there are the folktales and wonder tales (www.sacred-texts.com, go to the Celtic category) which reveal a lot about their beliefs (Beira, the Queen of Winter, for example). I've been posting them here as I have time. Because of the Clearances and the Proscriptions and the Emigration, Gaelic and Highland history was forbidden in schools in the highlands so many of Scotland's own people don't know about the details of the past.
There is much in common between Scots and Irish culture (Bride versus Brighid) but I think it is worth the effort to learn the differences too. I hope anything you learn, you'll post here for all of us.
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Post by Marcus on Sept 14, 2006 11:28:28 GMT -5
The reason why there is similarities is because of the Dal Riada. It is thought that the Dal Riada where a kingdom that had a plantation in scotland but now that view is being disputed and it is thought that it was infact a scottish plantation in Ireland. The Pictish regions are marked in yellow and the Dal Riada in Green.
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Post by wren on Sept 14, 2006 13:08:40 GMT -5
Oooooooh, maps! I love maps!
I have done a lot of reading about that very issue, the Dal Riada and which direction they went. Apparently, from what I've read, there is very little archeology to support the Irish to Scottish migration. Still, there had to be a great deal of trade and contact in both directions, don't you think? They joined together to fight invaders, after all.
My fascination with the Picts continues. My ancestoral ties are to Clan Keith, or the Catti Tribe, which merged with the Picts at one time.
My daughter and I just watched a documentary on Boudicca earlier this week. While they can find actual evidence of her attacks under London and the other sites she set ablaze, there is still no record of where her final confrontation with the Romans took place.
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Post by Marcus on Sept 14, 2006 14:04:01 GMT -5
Yeah because Ireland and the Scottish Islands where so close trade was very logical. The two islands of Ireland and Briton may as well have been one island. And they both fought the Romans and Anglo Saxons together so there are definete ties there. Is that documentary the one that is like a film documentary where it is like Braveheart or is it one of the archaological documentaries? I love reading about Boudicca! She must have been such a powerful woman.
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Post by Der Trommler on Sept 15, 2006 7:38:56 GMT -5
I just saw one about William Wallace...very interesting. There's another we are watching called In Search of Ancient Ireland....It's not what I thought it would be. Cut into 3 parts, I. Heroes (interesting but really didn't touch down on the subject enough) II. Saints (touched down on the subject too much...mostly about St. Patrick-I've got issues with this one as I have gotten mixed information about him from other people...another thread) III. Warlords (we are watching this tonight). In the saints part, they talk about Pagan rituals that are still prevailant in Ireland as well as how Christianity came into Ireland BUT it didn't really give me the entire information about the Pagans (IMHO)....
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Post by Marcus on Sept 15, 2006 11:17:42 GMT -5
I just saw one about William Wallace...very interesting. There's another we are watching called In Search of Ancient Ireland....It's not what I thought it would be. Cut into 3 parts, I. Heroes (interesting but really didn't touch down on the subject enough) II. Saints (touched down on the subject too much...mostly about St. Patrick-I've got issues with this one as I have gotten mixed information about him from other people...another thread) III. Warlords (we are watching this tonight). In the saints part, they talk about Pagan rituals that are still prevailant in Ireland as well as how Christianity came into Ireland BUT it didn't really give me the entire information about the Pagans (IMHO).... Something they always seem to not touch on in those documentaries is that St.Patrick only Christianised the North of Ireland. The south was already mostly Christian and the North was known as "the Pagan North" And yes there are some interesting stories about St.Patrick tricking young girls into saying they wanted to see the face of christ and he then killed them as you could only see the face of christ in death.
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Post by Der Trommler on Sept 15, 2006 19:23:52 GMT -5
See, there are things like that I heard St Patrick ordered the burning of all Celtic propoganda (Ie: books, writings, etc...) What really bothered me was how a station like PBS can not find a program that really delves into the countries so rich in history & tradition (even Christian people are still following some of the Pagan roots today!) I never knew why I got bothered about St Patrick's but now it really shows more. I mean, were there really snakes in Ireland? Anyway, off subject....so then, Irish & Scottish Celtic are very closely related. That's easy for me to understand....er, what about Stonhenge in relation to the Celts?
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