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Post by Senbecc on Feb 3, 2007 16:25:11 GMT -5
It has been brought to my attention that the Ogham information presented on these boards might not be easy for the beginner to understand, so it is my hope that this post as well as a discussion on the basics will help to simplify the Ogham, and it's uses.
The Ogham script is among many other things is a 2,000 (At least) year old history lesson. As we all know the Celts and Druids had a great affinity for trees, and it has long been observed loved riddles and puns, poetic keening's with much deeper meanings than what one will find on the surface. One of the earliest examples of an outside observer attesting to this would be a Roman writer called Diodorus Sicilus in 21 B.C.E. when he said, "They express themselves with riddles".
Now, aside from these particular truths, we also know that the Celts would have gotten along with Charles Darwin quite well IMO. They saw the evolution of all things, bloodlines, philosophy, languages, and yes, the alphabet. Did you know for example that the Ogham is the ancient ancestor of the modern Gaelic alphabet?
In the scholar's Primer on the ogham lore thread, we find the basic meanings of the Ogham given in three short poems, or word oghams. I have found in my studies on the Runes, that each rune had a similar poem attached and was a way of teaching them to children. These word Oghams are known as Bríatharogam in Irish. These can be seen as puns or riddles which lead us to it's deeper, more elaborate meaning to each Ogham. As an example Ogham, lets use "Coll" or Hazel. Hazel was obviously an important tree to the Irish. It was the fruit of the hazel tree that nourished the salmon of wisdom, said to be the body of the shape-shifted Fintan who has survived the entire creation of Ireland and therefore contained all the knowledge and wisdom the land had to offer.
Within the Scholar's primer it is said that the sacred trees have three ranks by which they are classified in order of importance which would be the chieftains, the peasants, and the shrubs. Armed with the above knowledge would you be surprised if I told you that Coll is a chieftain among the sacred grove? It is no accident that the hazel is the ninth letter in the alphabet. The number nine is the most sacred number in the Irish systems, and culture.
Senbecc, was a poet of the De Danann and in his poem he tells us that he has "eaten the fruits of nine hazels, fair is the wisdom that flows from the Boyne". The river Boyne's name is a variation on the name Boann, and Boann is another name for Anu who is first generation Tuatha, and is said to be the patroness of the De Danann, she is likely a reincarnation or the evolution of a much more ancient Celtic goddess of smithcraft, or maybe of rivers. The simple fact that the fruit of the hazel tree is considered worthy to feed her salmon with all the knowledge of the land shows us how truly sacred this chieftain tree must have been to the people of the land.
Now lets focus on the actual fruit of flesh of the hazel. I see the fruit of the hazel as a metaphor for the quest of enlightenment. The cracking of the shell is symbolic of these riddles, puns, and druidic keenings through which the Druids and Celts still speak to us today to find our own inner meanings and truths in being. Your interpretations will not be the same as mine for example, for our personal truths will always be different, though the riddle will never change.
Well, I suppose this post is getting long winded, and I still haven't touched on the meanings of the Bríatharogam or word oghams as I meant to. I think I'd better save that topic for another day. I simply want to give an idea of the sheer depth ogham study can take and why it took/takes the Bards so many years to understand the fully.
The Ogham is a great and deep grove of meaning, history, culture, as well as a guide to light the way down a long winding path to ones truth. They speak to us as faint echos of a rich Shamatic culture, yet loudly enough for anyone who has learned to listen!
And with that I will open the floor to questions and discussion.
Senbecc
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Post by Lady Anastasia on Feb 3, 2007 16:36:27 GMT -5
Truly wonderful post.. You pull us in.. and, then, as usual... leave us waiting, wanting more..
So, I will prod, what are the meanings of the Bríatharogam or word oghams? I promise that I can sit quietly while you continue the lesson...
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Post by Der Trommler on Feb 3, 2007 17:29:16 GMT -5
Thank you, Senbecc! I can understand the smaller basics. So, the number 9 is sacred & Hazel is the chieftain in a grove. I also have a smaller understanding of the levels (chieftains, peasants, & shrubs). So, I will too wait quietly!
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Post by Senbecc on Feb 3, 2007 17:48:53 GMT -5
Truly wonderful post.. You pull us in.. and, then, as usual... leave us waiting, wanting more.. So, I will prod, what are the meanings of the Bríatharogam or word oghams? I promise that I can sit quietly while you continue the lesson... Like the Rankings the Bríatharogam takes us further into the meanings of an individual ogham few. If we look for example at the word Ogham of Cu Chulainn in association with Coll or hazel it says: "Hazel equals the sweetest of wood, a nut" To me he speaks of the venture, what sweeter than work well paid off? The pursuit of knowledge in the cracking of the shell, and the sweetness of victory in that pursuit? We are shown this in more detail in the story of Fionn when Fionn is the apprentice under many teachers. We see his journey to the salmon, who had fed off the nuts for so long. Colls role is one of profound insight, and enlightenment in being. The hazel implies that receiving knowledge requires the effort of cracking the shell. |
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Post by Senbecc on Feb 3, 2007 17:52:21 GMT -5
Thank you, Senbecc! I can understand the smaller basics. So, the number 9 is sacred & Hazel is the chieftain in a grove. I also have a smaller understanding of the levels (chieftains, peasants, & shrubs). So, I will too wait quietly! Well remember that Coll is only one of eight equal chieftain trees. The chieftain trees are those with the most to offer, as with the Hazel, yet all offer a great deal of meaning, lore, and wisdom. I will go further into this subject in my next post to this thread. |
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Post by Lady Anastasia on Feb 3, 2007 17:55:14 GMT -5
Well.... I do believe that you have completely caught my attention with this... I look forward to reading more.. Thankies
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Post by Senbecc on Feb 4, 2007 17:44:10 GMT -5
Word Ogham of Morainn mac Moín[/i]
"It is through the truth of a ruler that plagues and great lightnings are kept from the people.
It is through the truth of a ruler that he judges great tribes and great riches.
It is through the truth of a ruler that he secures peace, tranquility, joy, ease, and comfort.
It is through the truth of a ruler that he dispatches battalions to the borders of hostile neighbors.
It is through the truth of a ruler that every heir plants his house post in his fair inheritance.
It is through the truth of a ruler that abundances of great tree fruit of great wood are tasted.
It is through the truth of a ruler that milk yields of great cattle are maintained.
It is through the truth of a ruler that there is abundances of fish swimming in the stream.
It is through the truth of a ruler that fair children are well begotten.
-Morainn mac Moín, Brehon Druid. (book of Leinster 6th century CE)
Unfortunately for the beginner of Ogham study, the word oghams as given by the Auraicept na N-Éces or scholar's primer can seem short, vague, and all around uninformative. However these coupled with other sources like the Auraicept na N-Éces, the Lebor Ogham, De Dúilib Feda na Forfid (The values of Forfeda) which are derived from the book of Leinster, the book of Ballymote, and the book of Lecan, as well as more modern sources can help to clear the blurred picture of the subject at hand.
It becomes important to the serious study to inquire, discover, and work to gain an intimate knowledge of the characters who are giving their riddles are, as well as lore, histories, and texts surrounding each. The first of these we will work to understand is the Brehon judge Morainn mac Moín who was famed for his knowledge, the truth and fairness of his judgments, as well as the stories and poetry he is attributed to. This is important, as his words lend credence to the ogham elaborations which also give us more detail into what it is we are working to understand about a particular Ogham few.
Now, what we are usually referring to when we say "elaborations" on a particular Ogham few are the "glosses" or notes which are preserved in the Scholar's primer, and to understand the word Oghams one first needs to look at the elaborations, or notes. To do this lets look at Coll, or hazel again.
Elaboration- Hazel, fair of wood- that is hazel for all eat of it's fruit/nuts
Word Ogham of Morainn mac Moín- Hazel is the fairest of trees- that is hazel, owing it's beauty to the woods.
Remember the similarities, for they are important.
So then what can we hope to decipher through the coupling of these glosses and word Oghams? Firstly we want to understand the glosses for what they were at the time they were written. As earlier discussed on this thread, the Irish language has seen several changes down through the centuries, and with those changes came changes in understandings. The filidh needed to hold true to the original meaning lest he break the law. The glosses were a work to translate, and keep true to the original meanings of the Ogham as given by what ever earlier source they were working from. Do you remember those similarities in the author's notes and those of the word Ogham?
Hazel stands at the most sacred point of the grove as the ninth few, it owes its beauty and wisdom to it's position within the grove as well as the beauty and wisdoms of the rest of the grove, for these reasons it is the fairest among them. Such is the word of the famed Brehon Druid Morainn mac Moín. Through each few Morainn judges the skill, and truth of each few then presents us with his riddle. We work here to crack that shell, to find their inner wisdoms and truths in being as they pertain to the world, and to ourselves as individuals, we work to pull fourth from within ourselves the truth of his judgments.
Morainn was a judge of truths, and a great and wise poet. In just a few small words he unleashes a crashing waterfall of information and meaning for the script, and from there to the minds. As this discussion progresses it is my hope that we will each work to know the three characters giving the word oghams and in that knowledge work to understand the individual fews on a more intimate, and profound basis.
Senbecc
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Post by Lady Anastasia on Feb 4, 2007 17:58:08 GMT -5
Wonderful posty.. I think I've read it 3 times now... trying to let things sink in...
I have nothing of value or importance to say at this time... Am waiting for the next installment...
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Post by Senbecc on Feb 5, 2007 14:21:20 GMT -5
Wonderful posty.. I think I've read it 3 times now... trying to let things sink in... I have nothing of value or importance to say at this time... Am waiting for the next installment... I'll be on that as soon as I can. I'm working on several other posts as well at the moment, but hope to get to it soon. |
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Post by Der Trommler on Feb 7, 2007 9:30:44 GMT -5
Working on it....I printed out several threads to help me visualize as well as get reading in while I'm not around a computer....
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Post by Lynnaya on Feb 7, 2007 19:24:38 GMT -5
Greetings!
I stumbled upon this page while filling out some final details for a workshop i am leading at a festival here in a week.
I am very excited to find someone else with as much information behind them!
I have been deeply studying the Ogham for over a year, finding a lot of the information through libraries both online and off.
I have read the Book of Ballymote as well as the Scholars Primer and trying to get to the root of it all... i have found it very interesting in digging into Robert Graves' past to not trust most of what he has given us on the subject of the Ogham.
For myself, and for the workshop i will be leading, i have come to the conclusion that the word oghams, or keenings, for each of the symbols are equally important, as Senbecc has stated, that knowing about the tree it is named for (or the other way around? ;-)) it of the most importance when using them as a divination tool. The trees were a such an imporant symbol for the Druids and they understood the deeper meaning of both the tress and the poetry surrounding them and putting them together...which as i see Senbecc is so nicely illustrating.
There is really so much that must be learned before even coming to the Oghams...and once you get there you find that to truly use them as a divinatory tool you must use your own conclusions and develop the deeper meanings within yourself.
I will add myself to this list, since now i am really looking forward to more posts!
Pob Bendith,
Lynnaya
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Post by KittyLane on Feb 7, 2007 20:29:36 GMT -5
we are glad you stumbled here! please do join and come back and share your knowledge! good luck with the festival, we would love to hear all about it.
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Post by Senbecc on Feb 8, 2007 9:49:38 GMT -5
Greetings! I stumbled upon this page while filling out some final details for a workshop i am leading at a festival here in a week. I am very excited to find someone else with as much information behind them! I have been deeply studying the Ogham for over a year, finding a lot of the information through libraries both online and off. I have read the Book of Ballymote as well as the Scholars Primer and trying to get to the root of it all... i have found it very interesting in digging into Robert Graves' past to not trust most of what he has given us on the subject of the Ogham. For myself, and for the workshop i will be leading, i have come to the conclusion that the word oghams, or keenings, for each of the symbols are equally important, as Senbecc has stated, that knowing about the tree it is named for (or the other way around? ;-)) it of the most importance when using them as a divination tool. The trees were a such an imporant symbol for the Druids and they understood the deeper meaning of both the tress and the poetry surrounding them and putting them together...which as i see Senbecc is so nicely illustrating. There is really so much that must be learned before even coming to the Oghams...and once you get there you find that to truly use them as a divinatory tool you must use your own conclusions and develop the deeper meanings within yourself. I will add myself to this list, since now i am really looking forward to more posts! Pob Bendith, Lynnaya Many welcome to PaganMystics Lynnaya! I hope you will make an account with us and share with us here. I enjoyed the read of your post and look forward to many more. |
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Post by Lynnaya on Feb 8, 2007 14:26:29 GMT -5
Thanks so much for the warm welcome, its much appreciated!
I spent a few more hours last night amongst many page of printouts and books trying to finish up the workshop.
I would really love to give some links to much of the information i have been able to search out on the amazing interweb we have here, but not sure if it is appropriate or not. Please let me know and i can gather them up and post them as well.
I have, as i have previously said, been studying this for sometime. My interest began when i received the Ogham sticks divinity tools by Caitlin Matthews about 3 years ago. I felt that it wasn't enough to follow someone elses words, and wanted to find the original and true meanings behind the Ogham.
I bought a few books by notable authors and began a long quest that i am still on.
The internet has been most helpful with places like sacredtexts.com and many libraries that have been wonderful enough to provide scans of books as well as translations to many of the texts out there.
It seems when delving that, as i said, there is so much to learn before getting to the Ogham themselves. Beside the history and basic understanding of the Druids, there is the understanding of the poetic nature and the importance of the flora surrounding them. The Gods' influence, the linguistics and foreign influences as well.
Its simple enough to pick one of the sets of kennings { I believe i wrote keenings in the last post too - i meant kennings - keenings are the wails from a Bansidhe - ;-) } / word Oghams (Morann Mac Main or Mac ind Oic - from the Auraicept na N-Eces) and make a simple framework of a meaning, but it lacks something.
Once the trees are brought into it, it can easily flesh out the meaning, or make it that much more confusing. Thats where imbas - or deep meditative journeys come into it.
Once it was the tarot that i spent so much time learning about, and i found that there was deeper esoteric meanings behind each , and that there was little to elaborate personally on. I had for so long used my own meaning behind them, that i found that i was actually not really tapping into their deeper mysteries. This is something i was attempting to avoid when beginning to work with the Ogham.
I too am getting a bit long winded.
Senbecc - interested in your reference to Anu / Danu being related to smithcraft - i had always related to Her as a mother and not to -as what i feel - is part of Brigid - Ah, they all became so intermingled...its not surprising.
Blessings and would love to see some questions!
I love answering questions so much more than babbling on about myself.
;-)
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Post by Senbecc on Feb 8, 2007 15:29:30 GMT -5
I'm pressed for time at the moment and my computer is acting up so I'll address this firstly and get to the rest of what you've written shortly. Danu certainly is associated with Brigid as well as An Morrighan however if one looks into the texts in detail they find that Anu/Danu was in fact a very obscure goddess and wasn't so much a mother figure. We know the Celtic people held all their gods in equal stature as is their belief that all things are equal under brehon law. IMO the reason Anu was chosen as a tribal goddess is due to her associations with smithing, art, and craftsmanship, which to a Celt these functions were interchangeable with the given name of the deity which ruled over it. So it may well be that the true translation of "people of the goddess Danu" should actually be "people of the goddess of smithcraft", or of Craftsmanship...Or even the artistic ones.
Senbecc
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