|
|
Post by Senbecc on Apr 2, 2007 4:37:23 GMT -5
OK as I understand it, it is believed by many Wiccans that Wicca is a Celtic practice from the Isle of Mann (wasn't it?) as given by Gerald Gardner. I was wondering what the Wiccans here on PaganMystics feel on this subject. I personally, though not a Wiccan anymore that Wicca is an eclectic practice. Some sources tell us Wicca is ancient, others say it is from 1954. What is your takes on the issue?
|
|
|
|
Post by theoccultchrist on Apr 4, 2007 19:34:04 GMT -5
I used to have good resources that I would use in many of my myspace arguments that talked about Wicca's Origins. but the sites I borrowed from no longer exists..luckily I downloaded the PDF book tro my computer before the site went under ( the Author gave permission to share it as long as it wasnt for profit) and thus I found a free file sharing website and uploaded the PDF file to it and is availible for anyone wishing to read it (For Free of course as per the Authors notes) so its legit..if anyone wants to read it here is the link: it covers the Origin of Wicca and alot of other stuff as well. www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/3/258489/MaidenMoon1%5B1%5D.1.pdfPersonally, I think Gardner and his "associates" may have invented Wicca..No Doubt that they infused older and maybe even "Ancient" Traditions into this concept of theirs..but Gardner also borrowed ideas and whatnot from the Golden Dawn, and Crowley and the OTO. also Garder was a Memember of the Masonic Lodge so I speculate that influence also affected Wicca in the early days. Personally wheither it is 13,000 years old or barely 65..does it really matter? the fact is that it works for people and is an expression of Spirit. |
|
|
|
Post by KittyLane on Apr 5, 2007 9:34:10 GMT -5
Again I must state: Gardener was not forming any religion. Just recording his findings and research on the matter. People who were associated with him, and those who came after him are the ones who, "created" wicca as we know it today. Those are my thoughts on the matter.  |
|
|
|
Post by Senbecc on Apr 6, 2007 0:13:19 GMT -5
Personally, I think Gardner and his "associates" may have invented Wicca..No Doubt that they infused older and maybe even "Ancient" Traditions into this concept of theirs..but Gardner also borrowed ideas and whatnot from the Golden Dawn, and Crowley and the OTO. also Garder was a Memember of the Masonic Lodge so I speculate that influence also affected Wicca in the early days. Personally wheither it is 13,000 years old or barely 65..does it really matter? the fact is that it works for people and is an expression of Spirit. Well normally I would agree, but I will say it matters when you start claiming historical inaccuracies as fact as a basis of "validating" a path. I just seem to see allot of this "Wicca is an ancient Celtic practice" around and it bugs me to no end. Gardner evidently studied under a coven of "witches" on the Isle of Mann, and that Robert Graves tree calender is the root of some ancient Wiccan knowledge. It just sticks in your craw after a while... |
|
|
|
Post by Senbecc on Apr 6, 2007 0:18:00 GMT -5
Again I must state: Gardener was not forming any religion. Just recording his findings and research on the matter. People who were associated with him, and those who came after him are the ones who, "created" wicca as we know it today. Those are my thoughts on the matter. I'll agree with this to some extent, though Gardner was obviously working to establish a religious practice. I do feel what it is now is probably pretty different from what Gardner was after. Most Wiccans I've spoken to feel Gardner was 'full of it"...That bugs me too though, if Gardner was full of it then why bother being lineaged to him? |
|
|
|
Post by theoccultchrist on Apr 6, 2007 3:31:15 GMT -5
John did you go to the link I left?
If not go there and read up on the introduction and "History Of Wicca" parts..very interesting.
|
|
|
|
Post by KittyLane on Apr 6, 2007 8:54:49 GMT -5
Again I must state: Gardener was not forming any religion. Just recording his findings and research on the matter. People who were associated with him, and those who came after him are the ones who, "created" wicca as we know it today. Those are my thoughts on the matter. I'll agree with this to some extent, though Gardner was obviously working to establish a religious practice. I do feel what it is now is probably pretty different from what Gardner was after. Most Wiccans I've spoken to feel Gardner was 'full of it"...That bugs me too though, if Gardner was full of it then why bother being lineaged to him? How can you really believe that he was trying to establish a religion? Where did you get that impression? On Gardner being, "full of it" its easy to dismiss people after you have formed your own opinions. Everyone else's findings/opinions are really just hear say until you find out for your own self. |
|
|
|
Post by Senbecc on Apr 6, 2007 14:54:11 GMT -5
John did you go to the link I left? If not go there and read up on the introduction and "History Of Wicca" parts..very interesting. I'm afraid I'm having some trouble getting it to load, I'll keep trying it though and let you know. |
|
|
|
Post by Senbecc on Apr 6, 2007 14:56:08 GMT -5
I'll agree with this to some extent, though Gardner was obviously working to establish a religious practice. I do feel what it is now is probably pretty different from what Gardner was after. Most Wiccans I've spoken to feel Gardner was 'full of it"...That bugs me too though, if Gardner was full of it then why bother being lineaged to him? How can you really believe that he was trying to establish a religion? Where did you get that impression? On Gardner being, "full of it" its easy to dismiss people after you have formed your own opinions. Everyone else's findings/opinions are really just hear say until you find out for your own self. Are you saying garder wasn't trying to establish a religion? He had his own coven of Witches after all didn't he? |
|
|
|
Post by Senbecc on Apr 6, 2007 16:58:06 GMT -5
John did you go to the link I left? If not go there and read up on the introduction and "History Of Wicca" parts..very interesting. Having read up on the history of Wicca, evidently this author is claiming it to be of Roman origin then? Just don't think I'd buy that either, now Stregheria has obvious associations with Roman history, I'm just not sure how the two paths could be linked together. According to the article, when the Wiccan community realized they had been lied to in the 70's and "reformed" the practice with Raymond Buckland's book on Saxon Wicca or "Reformed Traditional Wicca" which teaches people can form new traditions, can practice solitary, and even...Dare I say it...lol "self-initiate"...I knew allot of the people I saw on myspace were being fundamentalist knot-heads, but if this is true, then what can I say but ROTFLMFAO. Haha, I didn't think I'd like this read, I'll need to research it some more, but I must say at first I didn't know how I felt about this woman, now I must say I like her thoughts on the subject. |
|
|
|
Post by KittyLane on Apr 6, 2007 18:27:04 GMT -5
How can you really believe that he was trying to establish a religion? Where did you get that impression? On Gardner being, "full of it" its easy to dismiss people after you have formed your own opinions. Everyone else's findings/opinions are really just hear say until you find out for your own self. Are you saying garder wasn't trying to establish a religion? He had his own coven of Witches after all didn't he? where did you get that information? |
|
|
|
Post by Senbecc on Apr 7, 2007 0:38:52 GMT -5
Are you saying garder wasn't trying to establish a religion? He had his own coven of Witches after all didn't he? where did you get that information? New Forrest coven wasn't it? I think anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by theoccultchrist on Apr 7, 2007 20:18:53 GMT -5
John did you go to the link I left? If not go there and read up on the introduction and "History Of Wicca" parts..very interesting. Having read up on the history of Wicca, evidently this author is claiming it to be of Roman origin then? Just don't think I'd buy that either, now Stregheria has obvious associations with Roman history, I'm just not sure how the two paths could be linked together. According to the article, when the Wiccan community realized they had been lied to in the 70's and "reformed" the practice with Raymond Buckland's book on Saxon Wicca or "Reformed Traditional Wicca" which teaches people can form new traditions, can practice solitary, and even...Dare I say it...lol "self-initiate"...I knew allot of the people I saw on myspace were being fundamentalist knot-heads, but if this is true, then what can I say but ROTFLMFAO. Haha, I didn't think I'd like this read, I'll need to research it some more, but I must say at first I didn't know how I felt about this woman, now I must say I like her thoughts on the subject. HEr? Hah...Simon Craft is a guy..:-P and Roman origins? ..no he was not claiming Wicca has roman origins..you must have read that at the very very beginnig when he was describing where the word PAGAN came from..NOT WICCAN..but PAGAN...he was talking about Latin Paganus for Country Dweller and went on from there..basicly the entymology..and then into the moderd day definition. Read from about the bottom of page 16 on..when he starts talking about Gerald Gardner. anything prior to that is basicly just setting things up. and giving people not in the community a rundown of events that transpired a long long long time ago..lol |
|
|
|
Post by KittyLane on Apr 9, 2007 21:04:02 GMT -5
where did you get that information? New Forrest coven wasn't it? I think anyway. HMMM. I would like to actually read some of that or be directed to this coven's information if possible. |
|
|
|
Post by tahlia on Apr 13, 2007 20:26:17 GMT -5
I'll agree with this to some extent, though Gardner was obviously working to establish a religious practice. I do feel what it is now is probably pretty different from what Gardner was after. Most Wiccans I've spoken to feel Gardner was 'full of it"...That bugs me too though, if Gardner was full of it then why bother being lineaged to him? How can you really believe that he was trying to establish a religion? Where did you get that impression? On Gardner being, "full of it" its easy to dismiss people after you have formed your own opinions. Everyone else's findings/opinions are really just hear say until you find out for your own self. In my opinion, I can see no way around the fact that he was establishing a religion. Wicca is a religion and it didn't exist before Gardner. He created a religion based on several different things but it obviously was created by him and promoted by him. I've never seen anything to the contrary. It may very well have roots in an earlier coven of witches but was so drasticly changed by Gardner that it became it's own entity. It isn't simply witchraft...it is Wicca....a religion established by Gardner. |
|
