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Post by Lady Anastasia on Feb 19, 2007 5:26:43 GMT -5
I will say this for the rule of three. If you do something horrible to a person you may not break your leg but a part of you dies. You do become what you put out. You slowly start to change and it eats at you and it consumes you. This is something I know for a fact because I feel it in me. I am not a nice person and my body tells me so every day. So there is somethign to say for energies put out is energy influenced. Remember that the next time you feel yourself so quick to anger or the next time you feel that wave of hate coming on. You are doing this to yourself Is this Karma in your view? I'm not sure where your going with this but to my mind conscious is much different than Karma. I've heard of the concept of pieces of Soul dying from trauma, and that's a shamanic view point, but, it didn't have anything to do with Karma.. But, I think I can understand what row is saying... Just not sure if I can believe that...
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Post by rowanashmore on Feb 19, 2007 5:32:37 GMT -5
More a observation that we would all do well to remember. The idea of karma is not a wiccan invention it takes it origins back to india and the hindus. I just think that is a way to look at the law of three for ever bad you do a equal bad happens upon your soul.
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Post by Senbecc on Feb 19, 2007 5:41:31 GMT -5
More a observation that we would all do well to remember. The idea of karma is not a wiccan invention it takes it origins back to india and the hindus. I just think that is a way to look at the law of three for ever bad you do a equal bad happens upon your soul. I agree whole heartedly.
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Post by Lady Anastasia on Feb 20, 2007 20:04:19 GMT -5
As for the rule of three.....I believe the proper wiccan belief is not that what you put out comes back to you threefold. It's that it will come back in one of three ways. Hell if I can remember for certain what those are. Don't much care either. Wait a second.. Are you going to preach the "Proper Wiccan Belief" to us or not? If you are going to start off a statement that way, you for damned sure better be able to deliver with it.... Don't Start wobbling after you've so eloquently Decided to Educate us all on what that "Proper" Belief would be... Okay, here's where I feel that I need to ease my two pennies worth in.. First off, in the header of this forum, did I not read that all Wiccan paths and traditions were welcome and respected here? If this is truly so, then "proper Wiccan belief" can only be decided between members of an individual, or groups of linked Circles or Covens. The power and freedom of Wicca is that within the broad strokes of The Rede, and the Rule of Three, the individual, the coven, or the group of linked covens each decide for themselves what is "proper" or meaningful in their practice... No central counsel, no "head Coven" of elitists have the right to dictate to the masses. With that said, I think everyone has a right to their own opinion, even if not everyone sees eye to eye with it, or even if it makes little or no sense to anyone other than the holder of that belief. In the passage in question, she said, "I believe the proper Wiccan belief is.." which indicated the statement of a personally held belief... and so, in my humble opinion, the following, "Wait a second.. Are you going to preach the "Proper Wiccan Belief" to us or not? If you are going to start off a statement that way, you for damned sure better be able to deliver with it.... Don't Start wobbling after you've so eloquently Decided to Educate us all on what that "Proper" Belief would be... [/quote] delivered by someone with the heavy title of "Global Moderator" may have been delivered a wee bit harshly.. slapping down said simple "seeker" as if she were but the greenest acolyte. Indeed, it seemed to me to bring the thread to a screeching halt. Now, mayhap I am inviting the terrible wrath of a Global Moderator.. but I humbly submit that she might take a step back and think of the weight the title gives her words.. and deliver then not hammer blows, but a gentle guidance.
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Post by KittyLane on Feb 21, 2007 3:47:21 GMT -5
Wait a second.. Are you going to preach the "Proper Wiccan Belief" to us or not? If you are going to start off a statement that way, you for damned sure better be able to deliver with it.... Don't Start wobbling after you've so eloquently Decided to Educate us all on what that "Proper" Belief would be... Okay, here's where I feel that I need to ease my two pennies worth in.. First off, in the header of this forum, did I not read that all Wiccan paths and traditions were welcome and respected here? If this is truly so, then "proper Wiccan belief" can only be decided between members of an individual, or groups of linked Circles or Covens. The power and freedom of Wicca is that within the broad strokes of The Rede, and the Rule of Three, the individual, the coven, or the group of linked covens each decide for themselves what is "proper" or meaningful in their practice... No central counsel, no "head Coven" of elitists have the right to dictate to the masses. With that said, I think everyone has a right to their own opinion, even if not everyone sees eye to eye with it, or even if it makes little or no sense to anyone other than the holder of that belief. In the passage in question, she said, "I believe the proper Wiccan belief is.." which indicated the statement of a personally held belief... and so, in my humble opinion, the following, "Wait a second.. Are you going to preach the "Proper Wiccan Belief" to us or not? If you are going to start off a statement that way, you for damned sure better be able to deliver with it.... Don't Start wobbling after you've so eloquently Decided to Educate us all on what that "Proper" Belief would be... delivered by someone with the heavy title of "Global Moderator" may have been delivered a wee bit harshly.. slapping down said simple "seeker" as if she were but the greenest acolyte. Indeed, it seemed to me to bring the thread to a screeching halt. Now, mayhap I am inviting the terrible wrath of a Global Moderator.. but I humbly submit that she might take a step back and think of the weight the title gives her words.. and deliver then not hammer blows, but a gentle guidance. [/quote] ok...hmm well I have no idea why you would choose to sign in as a guest and use lady anastasia's name. When asked for a source, it needs to be given. The poster of which lady anastasia was responding to was not a seeker of the wiccan path. To my knowledge she the poster "thinks" she is a druid, and she said... As for the rule of three.....I believe the proper wiccan belief is not that what you put out comes back to you threefold. It's that it will come back in one of three ways. Hell if I can remember for certain what those are. Don't much care either.Which in its self is kinda slamming wiccans. If you "don't care", then why comment at all? If you dont know what you are talking about, and cannot back it up do not post on this site. We welcome everyone's opinion, but when it is simply opinion leave it at that, do not make false claims of knowledge and quote your friends. We will always be here to quide true seekers of all paths. BUT people that come on this site just looking for trouble are not welcome. Our moderators are doing their jobs right, and very well. Maybe before making such a flaming post you should READ the whole thread. And then see who is really in the wrong. Because it is not the REAL Lady Anastasia. You can join our forum and get a name of your own, and then enlighten us. When or If you do, PLEASE source your information. Because it is in the rules of Pagan Mystics, and if continued results in a ban. I will not have people of this site who are members exposed to guests who have no idea on what they are talking about. Thank You, KittyRiley Admin.
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Post by Senbecc on Feb 21, 2007 4:10:34 GMT -5
Yes, this is true, which is why we can't have someone come on and tell us what the "proper Wiccan belief" structure is without proper sources given. Her post challenged the initial post...Her post read:
"As for the rule of three.....I believe the proper wiccan belief is not that what you put out comes back to you threefold. It's that it will come back in one of three ways. Hell if I can remember for certain what those are. Don't much care either.
As you can see she has very explicitly said the initial post was WRONG. Afterward an offended poster asked for sources. So while yes I will say all branches of Wicca are welcome, they are NOT welcome to walk into a board and say another post is wrong because I say so...How would that be fair to the other traditions if I allowed such a mockery?
Again, if this is true then how does anyone have the right to claim what is the one true Wiccan path as I have seen Gards pull so many times? I agree that Wicca is a state of freedom, and that each have the right to choose what is best for them, just don't come on the site and claim others are wrong for what they believe...Understood?
Again no, you left out a very important part of her statement...Convienient.
"I believe the proper wiccan belief is not that what you put out comes back to you threefold.[/i]
She was offended, I for one have no difficulty understanding why.
No, that was done by the statement that said EVERYONE ELSE WAS WRONG! Typical Gard ain't ya?
If you continue to ask for that wrath, you will receive it, however it will not come from a Mod. The next time you cowardly come on my site as another poster to troll them I will BAN your hypocritical ass. Plain enough damned English for you Gard?
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Post by Senbecc on Feb 21, 2007 6:23:37 GMT -5
I would just like to add that this site does indeed have rules posted. I will highlight those broken. Our laws on PaganMystics are taken from the Book of ballymote and are the instructions of King Cormac.
"O Cormac, grandson of Conn", said Carbery, "What is the worst pleading and arguing?" "Not hard to tell", said Cormac. Contending against knowledge, contending without proofs taking refuge in bad language a stiff delivery a muttering speech hair-splitting uncertain proofs, despising books turning against custom shifting one's pleading inciting the mob blowing one's own trumpet shouting at the top of one's voice.
And with that I will leave you with that final words of his instructions.
If you be too talkative, you will not be heeded If you be too silent, you will not be regarded If you be too hard, you will be broken If you be too feeble, you will be crushed.
Senbecc...Please read the rules more carefully.
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Post by rowanashmore on Feb 22, 2007 0:49:12 GMT -5
I will add my two cents here since I have been reading this thread.
Originally it was posted that the "proper wiccan belief" I dont think that it was meant that ever other belief was wrong I think the poster meant traditional gardnarian belief. Typo but certinly not a horrible mistake.
Maybe it would be better if kitty and lala let john handle this since It seems that the two of you have a personally issue with the posters.
To the others in this thread why not just stop. This is absolutly silly at this moment They are in charage of this group which makes them the people who decide who and how they are in if they dont want a person in here they will bann them which is what I suggest happens instead of this. To new people that would join this group it will run them off to see this foolishness.
these are just my thoughts and I hope that they will be read and taken to heart
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Post by Senbecc on Feb 22, 2007 11:11:07 GMT -5
I will add my two cents here since I have been reading this thread. LoL, thats four...This keeps up I'll be rich. I agree, there has nothing that has been said about having an opinion, and I think it was said by who ever that was that hers was a personal belief which is fine too, however I have no trouble seeing why people took issue with it. As I understand it however the traditional Gardnerian belief is that it grows three times. The Eastern philosophy of Karma is made Gardnerian by being mixed with the three-fold nature of the Celtic cosmos as I understand it. When a deed is done in this realm it is said the deed is done on all three of the interwoven realms or worlds, and when the intent put in motion is returned it is 3 times what we put out...Not my belief, but is as I understand it where the law of three began. If I am in error then by all means any who disagree feel free to address it, just be prepared to yield sources.
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Post by Senbecc on Feb 22, 2007 12:51:13 GMT -5
Now, I will work to salvage something from this thread...Now, it has been suggested that Gardner's three-fold law of return wasn't one of energies growing once they have been put out... "During the second-degree initiation into "the brotherhood" as the Craft was referred to in the book, the initiate returns the number of scourges received three-fold onto the one doing the initiating (as is done in the actual Gardnerian and Alexandrian ritual). The author then comments: "For this is the joke in witchcraft, the witch knows, though the initiate does not, that she will get three times what she gave, so she does not strike hard."" "…the ritual using of the cords and the scourge is the occasion for dramatizing a lesson about what is often called 'the boomerang effect'; namely, that any magical effort, whether beneficent or malicious, is liable to rebound threefold on the person who makes it." www.waningmoon.com/ethics/3fl-3.shtmlAnother teaching of Gerald's which I have come to question is the belief known popularly as "the Law of Three". This tells us that whatever you send out in witchcraft you get back threefold, for good or ill. -Doreen Valiente National Conference of the Pagan Federation in November 1997 (Who seems according to my own research was Gardner's HP and felt that Gardner "cooked the whole thing up") www.waningmoon.com/ethics/3fl-1.shtmlThe Rule of Three has its prototype in a piece of Wiccan liturgy which first appeared in print in Gerald Gardner's 1949 novel High Magic's Aid: "'Thou hast obeyed the Law. But mark well, when thou receivest good, so equally art bound to return good threefold.' (For this is the joke in witchcraft, the witch knows, though the initiate does not, that she will get three times what she gave, so she does not strike hard.)"[1][2] During the next few decades, many other Wiccan religious leaders articulated some form of the Rule. The first published reference to the Rule of Three as a general ethical principle may be from Raymond Buckland, in a 1968 article for Beyond magazine. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_Three_%28Wiccan%29Ethics consist of standards of conduct combined with moral judgment and moral philosophy. There is no one set of morals or ethics which can apply to all people at all times in history. Ethics are very much based on local and current standards. Traditional Wiccans are expected to have an above average level of common sense and therefore they should not need a long, detailed list of laws and rules, but there are certain customs which most traditional Wiccans hold to, on which we will elaborate in future lessons. Common sense is the strongest guide for human as well as Wiccan ethics. As an added guide in Wicca we have the Wiccan Rede and The Law of Threefold Return (also called the Three-Fold Law). a. Three-fold law: The Three-fold law reminds us to think before we act, and this means in all things we do and say, not only when we do deliberate magical acts. Ever mind the Rule of Three Three times what thou givest returns to thee This lesson well, thou must learn, Thee only gets what thou dost earn! "Traditional Wicca class one" bluemoonwicca.org/class01.htmlNow then, the debate on whether or not traditional[/i] Wicca sees Gardner's law of return as one that builds to a three fold manner is now academic. My advice CharmingWitch is that you not take ANYONE'S word for anything, and study and scrutinize every piece of information you find, for it will be in this way that you will learn. Senbecc
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